Ask a Diamond [Week 5: Bot lane]

[quote=NateDog13][quote=Janitsu] I now have two AD pages one with 2 life steal quints and one with 2 attack speed quints and one ad quint in both could you tell me which is better on certain ADCs so I can use them most effectively luvu [/quote] What does your ADC champion pool look like? I can assist you from there :D![/quote]

[quote=Janitsu][img=http://puu.sh/8IAFm.jpg][/quote]

[quote=xIchi]^did u just filter by marksman xD?[/quote]

[quote=Janitsu]mby bby[/quote]

[quote=NateDog13][quote=Janitsu] [img=http://puu.sh/8IAFm.jpg] [/quote] Lifesteal: Caitlyn (She can use both imo) Corki (His low range gets him bullied, needs the sustain) Ezreal Graves (Low range) Lucian (Passive already covers ya on AS) MF (Already has an AS Buff) Sivir (Already has an AS Buff) Tristana (Already has an AS buff) AS: Ashe (Kite so hard mang, and her bullying in lane allows her to get away with it) Teemo Twitch Vayne Varus (Can Use Both, Abuses the shit out of his passive though with this page)[/quote]

[quote=Luther3000][size=1]im still not diamond but yeah[/size] I mostly agree with NateDog's list, buuut.. I think AS is better on Caitlyn, to the point where she's probably the best ADC to get AS quints on. She benefits really well from it, having the lowest base AS in the game and no inherent way to boost it while also being very auto-reliant and using AA harass often in lane. Plus I mean, how often do you get harassed when you're playing Caitlyn? You're practically always the one doing the harassing. In general I'd also add my opinion that AS is always better than Lifesteal when you're confident in your lane matchup, regardless of who you're playing. It's difficult to explain exactly but AS makes everything seem so much smoother early in lane because your auto animation and cooldown stop being slow as hell. You can push harder, cs more easily, harass more easily and transition between the two more quickly. When I use my other runepages for a while and then go back to the AS quints I feel like a freakin' ninja - it's very noticeable how much less time all your actions take to execute. The early sustain from Lifesteal is pretty nice but if you can just survive until [[vampiric scepter]] then it stops really mattering. Even if their kits don't specifically scale with it, every single ADC in the game loves extra AS.[/quote]

[quote=NateDog13][quote=Luther3000] [size=1]im still not diamond but yeah[/size] I mostly agree with NateDog's list, buuut.. I think AS is better on Caitlyn, to the point where she's probably the best ADC to get AS quints on. She benefits really well from it, having the lowest base AS in the game and no inherent way to boost it while also being very auto-reliant and using AA harass often in lane. Plus I mean, how often do you get harassed when you're playing Caitlyn? You're practically always the one doing the harassing. In general I'd also add my opinion that AS is always better than Lifesteal when you're confident in your lane matchup, regardless of who you're playing. It's difficult to explain exactly but AS makes everything seem so much smoother early in lane because your auto animation and cooldown stop being slow as hell. You can push harder, cs more easily, harass more easily and transition between the two more quickly. When I use my other runepages for a while and then go back to the AS quints I feel like a freakin' ninja - it's very noticeable how much less time all your actions take to execute. The early sustain from Lifesteal is pretty nice but if you can just survive until [[vampiric scepter]] then it stops really mattering. Even if their kits don't specifically scale with it, every single ADC in the game loves extra AS. [/quote] But Luther-senpai (Weeaboo alert incoming amirite), I said she can use both in my opinion ; w ; (I guess the problem was that I only listed her once which basically seemed like I was saying Lifesteal was the best for her huh z.z). And in terms of lifesteal on Cait, it isn't really about being harassed, it's about the constant trading between you and the enemy ADC. And the damage you take from minion aggro because of your poking is pretty significant as it adds up over time. Generally platinum+ ADC's grow a pair of balls and don't just take Caitlyn harass lying down (if they can possibly trade back).[/quote]

[quote=Luther3000]I forgive you Nate-kun (I did assume you meant Lifesteal was slightly better, yes). :P I think what you say is absolutely true and Lifesteal does help with all of those things. In general though, Caitlyn does tend to make trades without receiving much damage in return, at least when compared to your average ADC. I don't think minion aggro damage is nearly enough of a problem to warrant Lifesteal quints - Caitlyn again takes less than usual minion damage during trades due to her range attracting less minions and allowing her to more easily drop the aggro. Doran's alone plus the Feast mastery and your natural regen should be enough to more or less nullify minion damage (or at least make it werth) if you don't play overly forward and get focused a bunch. Lastly if one's going to assume that the opposing ADC knows what he's doing and how to trade with Caitlyn, one should also assume that the Caitlyn player has the same level of skill and knowledge and knows how to minimize situations where she'll get into bad trades. All the points you made are not Caitlyn-specific either, in fact I'd say they apply more to other AD carries than they do to Caitlyn.[/quote]

[quote=NateDog13][quote=Luther3000] I forgive you Nate-kun (I did assume you meant Lifesteal was slightly better, yes). :P What you say is definitely true and Lifesteal does help with all of those things. In general though Caitlyn does tend to make trades without receiving much damage in return, at least when compared to your average ADC. I don't think minion aggro damage is nearly enough of a problem to warrant Lifesteal quints - Caitlyn again takes less than usual minion damage during trades due to her range attracting less minions and allowing her to more easily drop the aggro. Doran's alone plus the Feast mastery and your natural regen should be enough to more or less nullify minion damage (or at least make it werth) if you don't play overly forward and get focused a bunch. Lastly if one's going to assume that the opposing ADC knows what he's doing and how to trade with Caitlyn, one should also assume that the Caitlyn player has the same level of skill and knowledge and knows how to minimize situations where she'll get into bad trades. All the points you made are not Caitlyn-specific either, in fact I'd say they apply more to other AD carries than they do to Caitlyn. [/quote] Idk man, trades tend to happen so frequently at my level of play that minion aggro actually makes quite a significant impact on both sides and constantly knowing the potential amount of health you have, alongside the knowledge of how fast you can regain your health, on top of your heal baits, it all makes really significant impacts. Idk, I just feel as though health control at my level is significantly more important than having that .1 second faster attack or w/e. Idk, it might just be one of those things again for me, I'm not too big a fan of AS runes at all rofl[/quote]

[quote=Luther3000]Yeah, I can understand what you mean. I'm still unsure about it myself, I've been swapping between them like crazy ever since the rune changes. I think that a lot of it is down to being situational or personal preference now, which is probably exactly what Riot intended to do with the changes. But I have noticed that the majority of pro AD players seem to be preferring AS over Lifesteal in most of their games these days.[/quote]