7.4 Tier List + AMA

[quote=Out Of Pancakes]I know that you hate [[elise]] "with every fiber of your being" but I'm still gonna ask you: what makes her t1? What runes and core items would you use or do you see people using when playing her? What jungle item would you use with [[lee sin]]? @OTG : I've had no problems at all when jungling with [[lee sin]] :L I get W at lvl 2 and my first clear is pretty fine.[/quote]

[quote=Zordagoth][quote=DillButt64]thoughts on the new sejuani changes in this patch? both AP and jungle[/quote] I'd like to know too, played her didn't see that much difference, except her CDs with [[frozen heart]] are extremely ridiculous. Other thing I'm wondering, whenever i'm playing [[kha'zix]] I tend to evolve Q first if the other jungler is able to invade me ( like [[lee sin]] ), it also help killing the jungle and drake. But is it any good actually or do you still evolve E for ganking ?[/quote]

[quote=H4xDefender]You can evolve w/e you want with khazix first and still do fine IMO. I prefer W max and evolve, its the most consistent still. I go rangers on basically everyone. Obviously devourer on the attackspeed/auto attack based champs, and I go poachers on nunu, but everyone else is rangers for me. Havent touched sej yet, still seems bad Elise fell off in s4 when ancient golem got nerfed, now that its back and she still has solid sustain and damage shes a strong pick again. Also has the option to go full utility, or go the AP jungle item, just has a lot of options in general.[/quote]

[quote=Luther3000][quote=H4xDefender]I feel like graves is really overrated. He still does nothing lategame, and his lane isn't so much better that it justifies for his shit lategame.[/quote] I can see where you're coming from but I think you're exaggerating how bad his lategame is. It's not as if Corki's lategame is good either, and the only thing making Lucian's much better than Graves' is his passive damage and ult range. Especially with the nerfs to both of those champions improving Graves' lane matchups I think he's in a pretty good position. I'd say that Caitlyn and Twitch both have bigger issues than Graves does, at any rate, i.e. lack of damage early + midgame and vulnerability to assassins + strong laners respectively. I know your list is oriented for competitive but those weaknesses go double for solo queue.[/quote]

[quote=OTGBionicArm][quote=Luther3000][quote=H4xDefender]I feel like graves is really overrated. He still does nothing lategame, and his lane isn't so much better that it justifies for his shit lategame.[/quote] I can see where you're coming from but I think you're exaggerating how bad his lategame is. It's not as if Corki's lategame is good either, and the only thing making Lucian's much better than Graves' is his passive damage and ult range. Especially with the nerfs to both of those champions improving Graves' lane matchups I think he's in a pretty good position. I'd say that Caitlyn and Twitch both have bigger issues than Graves does, at any rate, i.e. lack of damage early + midgame and vulnerability to assassins + strong laners respectively. I know your list is oriented for competitive but those weaknesses go double for solo queue.[/quote] Plus isn't [[Graves]] level 6 one of, if not *the* strongest spikes of any ADC right now?[/quote]

[quote=Vapora Dark]Yeah I think you're underrating Graves. I mean his late-game isn't spectacular, but I wouldn't say it's *bad*. And his laning is strong enough to beat both Corki and Lucian in lane, so there has to be some merit to him.[/quote]

[quote=OTGBionicArm]Or maybe h4x is being nonchalant, trying to say Graves is bad so Graves doesn't get the next round of nerfs. Again.[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy]Graves has more damage focused onto his abilities and less into his attacks. But pushing is one of the most important factors in the current meta and abilities can't hit turret. I think that is what holds [[graves]] back. But otherwise, he is able to steal objectives with his ultimate and objective control is even more important.[/quote]

[quote=OTGBionicArm][quote=NicknameMy]Graves has more damage focused onto his abilities and less into his attacks. But pushing is one of the most important factors in the current meta and abilities can't hit turret. I think that is what holds [[graves]] back. But otherwise, he is able to steal objectives with his ultimate and objective control is even more important.[/quote] That's more about his AA range than the auto attacks themselves. Graves has a very good steroid and pretty high ass base AD for a carry.[/quote]

[quote=H4xDefender]I don't think graves is a bad champion. Hes pretty high up on the list all things considered. I just don't see him being better than who is above him. Twitch: OK laning, huge pick potential, and ridiculous ultimate. High damage at all points of game, and goes from a solid pick to an amazing one with a teamcomp around him. Caitlyn: Amazing laning, weak midgame if you don't do well in lane, solid lategame, good poke, has escape. Much more consistent than graves. Lucian: doesn't need explaining Corki: doesn't need explaining[/quote]