thank you for your reply

I'll try to justify my choices, even if I respect and find some of your inputs valid!


To clarify, cause maybe I've gotten misunderstood, not only I said the soonar at 3(usually i go at 6 with 2 in phoenix and turtle) but I don't think it would take to lvl 6 to gat back!


I use turtle passive to farm health and mana from minions or monsters and active only to get the shield switching back to bear in escapes, the crit is obviously for every other stance and for damage to champions!


Can't really argue here, you make a good point! I just feel bear's movement speed is worth the 5 points obviouly, and chosing either phoenix or tiger to keep at 3 will lower my damage output. As for the porting back to base, I find the turtle 3 points in the early game enough and wont really starve too much later on!


I obviously won't damage hard but i'll be able to stay in lane longer and so lvl faster IMO.


I just dont like to leave 1 point in a 3 point skill. lol =X


This one I'll defenitly try, I tought about it but didn't expect to die that much! thanks for the suggestion.


I just feel the time it lasts is enough or if not I can just go get the buffs from the enemy camps, gank a buffed enemy or just wait for a respawn!


I just feel that even if smite is very helpful in early jungling, as soon as you get phoenix and turtle at 3 points each it just becomes useless, maybe I'm just not so considerate of time wasted jungling!


Hopefully my reply will clarify and maybe make you consider try it sometime!
Anyways, thanks for your suggestions and constructive critics! =)

There are a variety of issues that i can see in your build, but the biggest one i can see is how much you hamper your "lane parter" by leaving him to solo at level 3. A 2v1 is able to survive purely out of his level advantage. It gives him a larger health bar sooner and lets him use stronger abilities. By leaving him alone at level 3, he will be easily pushed and dived the moment the opposing champions hit lvl 6.

Crit chance helps Udyr extremely little. The extra gold from an avarice can help, but the crit chance it offers is virtually wasted. Yes, he can crit, but The use of turtle stance automatically makes it useless.

Not maxing turtle stance is a big mistake. both bear AND Tiger suffer from diminuitive return at ~rank 4. This mean you get less for the skill points that you put into it. Turtle also grants amazing survivability, and a passive way to regain health and mana without havign to port back to base.

You are also not maxing Phoenix early, when it's per rank damage is strongest. Phoenix is the best stance in Udyr's arsenal for early-mid game damage, and you effectively waste it with you skill path.

There is really no point on for most champions - these exclusions being crit champions - to go deeper into the offensive tree than 9 points. the benefits gained are easily outweighed from other trees.

Perseverence on Udyr is a wasted mastery. He has a very low natural regen, the extra 4% regen you gain ends up giving you less than 1mp/5 and less than 3hp/5. Good hands will help you more, reducing your death timer.

As a jungler it should be natural for you to grab the increased neutral buff duration. It will allow you a larger timeframe to gank or jungle without mana issues.

Your argument that ignite should be used for an increase to your AP is pointless, 10AP goes nowhere fast. However being able to get ranged kills can help, but it is easily countered by my next point.


YOUR LACK OF SMITE. smite will easily increas your jungles speed by more than a minute.