Inhouse Dicussion

[quote=Bryun]Lately, NA has been having problems with the games being one-sided. This thread is to discuss on how we can improve. Problems: [list] [*] Communication (Speaking on vent) [*] Skill level [*] Champion picks [*] Perspective (People who take the game seriously vs. having fun) [*] Will to win -Thalia [/list] Here are the games of the recent inhouses. [url=http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/forum/community-games/na-inhouse-game-discussion-april-27920][NA] Inhouse Discussion - April[/url] If anyone has any advice or input they want to bring up, it'll be great.[/quote]

[quote=Mooninites]It's fine to have a discussion about balance or how seriously people should take inhouses (if at all). It's not okay to blame people for being to good or taking it too seriously. People play the game for different reasons[/quote]

[quote=OTGBionicArm][quote=Mooninites] It's fine to have a discussion about balance or how seriously people should take inhouses (if at all). It's not okay to blame people for being to good or taking it too seriously. People play the game for different reasons [/quote] Yea, we already repeated this like 5 times. :p There isn't a way to fix skill gaps, other than everyone magically becoming the same skill level. Our main issues stem from lack of communication (seems like 2-3 people every game don't/can't talk). Other issues being that having a group of people that are playing champions they are good with and actively trying to win vs a group of people who could be learning a new role or just picking a champion for fun makes this further skewed. Perhaps we take a tally of who's learning new roles or just playing something abnormal for them and how many are playing with things they know they play well, and use the tally to further balance the teams?[/quote]

[quote=Napoleon D][quote=Bryun] Lately, NA has been having problems with the games being one-sided. [/quote] Can't stop that NA always had problems with one sided games. just watch XDG vs TSM. OR CST VS C9. i would communicate but a group of dongers broke my MIC. SKILL LEVEL: Nintendudex vs Meteos, there will always be a skill disparity between players even at the highest level. Champ picks: [[soraka]] mid is legit dude. Perspective: You cant please everyone.[/quote]

[quote=NateDog13]Actually, from the games that I've played, I've got a few suggestions. 1. Highest ranked player on either team should be doing bans. (This just seems kind of obvious to me, most experienced = generally healthier and more efficient banning phase) 2. Highest Divisions should always be laned vs. eachother. (Having someone like me go ADC, and then top lane stream line feed your akali Bryun is not A ok and makes it extremely silly lmao) 3. Champion picks is an interesting one, generally when people start picking silly things like Kassadin Bruiser top (shotsfired), games start getting lost. So maybe restrict it to more meta/solo queue focused things or just generally have people pick champions that just fit the role. 4. Perspective is one of those things that's tricky, personally every inhouse I've played, I've been dead exhausted due to long days, so I'm not really aiming to tryhard, so I'm generally just filling in for roles and not aiming to do anything other than assist my team. I don't think it's necessarily a problem because regardless players are going to try and win, it's just the effort put behind it is going to differ based on the day they had, the games they played before (if any), and whether they are really feeling like playing. 5. Communication on vent, this is one of those things that can only improve as people play more and more and use it more and more. Nothing you can really change there other than encouraging people to keep playing inhouses consistently.[/quote]

[quote=Thalia Kael][quote=NateDog13] Actually, from the games that I've played, I've got a few suggestions. 1. Highest ranked player on either team should be doing bans. (This just seems kind of obvious to me, most experienced = generally healthier and more efficient banning phase) 2. Highest Divisions should always be laned vs. eachother. (Having someone like me go ADC, and then top lane stream line feed your akali Bryun is not A ok and makes it extremely silly lmao) 3. Champion picks is an interesting one, generally when people start picking silly things like Kassadin Bruiser top (shotsfired), games start getting lost. So maybe restrict it to more meta/solo queue focused things or just generally have people pick champions that just fit the role. 4. Perspective is one of those things that's tricky, personally every inhouse I've played, I've been dead exhausted due to long days, so I'm not really aiming to tryhard, so I'm generally just filling in for roles and not aiming to do anything other than assist my team. I don't think it's necessarily a problem because regardless players are going to try and win, it's just the effort put behind it is going to differ based on the day they head, the games they played before (if any), and whether they are really feeling like playing. 5. Communication on vent, this is one of those things that can only improve as people play more and more and use it more and more. Nothing you can really change there other than encouraging people to keep playing inhouses consistently. [/quote] 1- I think this is a good idea. 2- I was thinking about this, but came to the conclusion that it wouldn't solve anything. Let's say I have to go against PureLulz (as an example) in the top lane, I would stand no chance against him because he is a much better top laner than me, whereas I could at least match him in other roles like mid or support. In the top lane scenario, he would end up dominating me (less than a lesser ranked player that doesn't top lane much either, though) and I would end up not doing much and he would still end up fed. 3- That would make the game less fun, though.[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD]To anyone who hosts the NA inhouses, I'd suggest to contact Khazem or Wayne. Both of them regularly host inhouses and they're generally balanced. It might just be that the EUW player pool is easier to work with but I suppose it's worth a shot. I mean a good while ago EU also had consistently unbalanced games and eventually that problem got mostly solved.[/quote]

[quote=NateDog13][quote=Thalia Kael] [quote=NateDog13] Actually, from the games that I've played, I've got a few suggestions. 1. Highest ranked player on either team should be doing bans. (This just seems kind of obvious to me, most experienced = generally healthier and more efficient banning phase) 2. Highest Divisions should always be laned vs. eachother. (Having someone like me go ADC, and then top lane stream line feed your akali Bryun is not A ok and makes it extremely silly lmao) 3. Champion picks is an interesting one, generally when people start picking silly things like Kassadin Bruiser top (shotsfired), games start getting lost. So maybe restrict it to more meta/solo queue focused things or just generally have people pick champions that just fit the role. 4. Perspective is one of those things that's tricky, personally every inhouse I've played, I've been dead exhausted due to long days, so I'm not really aiming to tryhard, so I'm generally just filling in for roles and not aiming to do anything other than assist my team. I don't think it's necessarily a problem because regardless players are going to try and win, it's just the effort put behind it is going to differ based on the day they head, the games they played before (if any), and whether they are really feeling like playing. 5. Communication on vent, this is one of those things that can only improve as people play more and more and use it more and more. Nothing you can really change there other than encouraging people to keep playing inhouses consistently. [/quote] 1- I think this is a good idea. 2- I was thinking about this, but came to the conclusion that it wouldn't solve anything. Let's say I have to go against PureLulz (as an example) in the top lane, I would stand no chance against him because he is a much better top laner than me, whereas I could at least match him in other roles like mid or support. In the top lane scenario, he would end up dominating me (less than a lesser ranked player that doesn't top lane much either, though) and I would end up not doing much and he would still end up fed. 3- That would make the game less fun, though. [/quote] @#2 - Generally teams tend to be balanced enough to where the gap in skill would be pretty small in margin, so I don't know if that would really make that large a difference if you don't main that role. And plus that matchup you just stated was a Gold 1 (assuming you still are G1) vs a Plat 2 player (I think he's plat 2), which wouldn't be a legit lane for this system in the first place, if anything he'd probably end up facing me or another platinum player. And even then, it would still at least stem the streamline feeding that would lead to heavy snowball scenarios. Factoring in players at the silver and bronze (and lower gold) level is tough because of how unfair these lanes can turn out, so I figure this idea is a better way to do it.[/quote]

[quote=Thalia Kael]I was just using him and me as an example, what I meant is that let's say there are two plat 3's, but one of them is a top main and another is a pretty bad top laner, the top main is still likely to win against him (less than against a silver 4 though). In the end it would still be unbalanced because one plat 3 would be quite a bit more useful than the other one instead of what we see now (usually the plats/diamonds are in different lanes and both get fed and whoever has the better carry champion and team comp beats the other in the mid game) I also think forcing someone into a certain lane is a bit unfun for that person, and usually the lanes of my team are decided in the actual champ select. Aside from that, I think the main problem in game 2 (wasn't in game 1 so idk what the situation was there) was that we had a jacked up bot lane with our two highest ranked players, one of them on a champion that can snowball and carry the game (Elite on Vayne) against the enemy two highest ranked players top and adc, so what happened was that we destroyed bot, thus snowballing our higher ranked players and denying one of theirs at the same time, while the other one snowballed in top lane (PureLulz on Rengar I think), but couldn't carry as hard as Elite because Vayne can carry the game much harder than Rengar and he had a fed Leona to protect him. I don't think there is a real solution to this as of now and to still have fun games where players aren't forced into certain champions and/or roles.[/quote]

[quote=Khazem]honeslty I think it's just a matter of the hosts getting to know their players better. just balancing people based on their elo/wins/stats isn't going to work because of their playstyles/preferred roles and of course the things you mentioned such as communication/perspective. When balancing the teams you really need to take into account everything you know about the players. Yes, Elo is a pretty decent way of comparing skill levels overall, but you also need to take into account what role they'll most likely play, how serious they're going to take it and wether or not both teams actually have players that communicate with eachother. I believe that if you consistently stick around to host the inhouses, you'll start getting a decent feel for it and the games will start getting more and more balanced every week (ofcourse there's always games that are going to end in stomps no matter what, but at least you should be more evenly matched overall)[/quote]