ELO system

[quote=roest21]okay, so i've been trying to figure out this whole ELO thing for some time.. apparently it's named after some genious chess player who made up this amazing system to match the good with the good and bad with the bad.. i also read that riot wont publish exactly how their ELO system works, or what alghorythm they use.. i've heard that u can also get a loss forgiven, which is also unknown exactly how that would happen. i also heard that if u have a DC or a leaver on ur team it will decrease the amound of ELO lost in the game.. i would like to say that the only thing i do not understand is that i just lost a game with 2 DC and i lose 17 ELO.. but i must say that i do not understand any of this system. i am trying to make my way up in ELO, since i started playing ranked about 30 games ago.. i am now at 1225 ELO.. was at 1279 earlier today.. if anyone can clarify what is going on with this "game of mystery and decieve" i would love some help.. ps. this should not have been posted in the QQ thread, because i really want help..[/quote]

[quote=Darcurse]Cant give you detailed information on everything related either. But just the rough explanation: ELO: System to measure ppl's skill in a game (normally 1on1). Everyone starts at a set baste value (in LoL 1200 for example) Winning = Elo increase. Lose= Elo decrease. (should be clear) The system itself exists to measure your abilities and make it possible to match you up with opponents on your level. Otherwise you wouldnt be able to show your real skills if youre only matched against players way stronger/weaker than yourself. But since its not always possible to match you against players as strong as yourself (thx to applying ELO on individuals in a team game.../number and differences of ppl playing) you'll drop by less points if you lose against stronger players and by more if you lose against weaker ones.(Other way around if you gaine points for winning) So in the end the system evaluates your skill in one number and since you should always win against weaker enemies and lose against stronger ones you should be placed in the ELO chart right where you belong, theoretically....[/quote]

[quote=roest21]so, what u are saying is that it does not account for the 4 other players on my team, or their actions? so lets just assume that in the low ELO people should be worse, playing badly, and if u are in set ELO because of DC/leavers, u are theoretically doomed to somehow change the mindset and abilities of the people around you during a 40 minute game? and that if you are just simply unlucky there is only one thing to do to get a second chance and that is to wait till season 3?[/quote]

[quote=Temzilla][quote=roest21] so, what u are saying is that it does not account for the 4 other players on my team, or their actions? so lets just assume that in the low ELO people should be worse, playing badly, and if u are in set ELO because of DC/leavers, u are theoretically doomed to somehow change the mindset and abilities of the people around you during a 40 minute game? and that if you are just simply unlucky there is only one thing to do to get a second chance and that is to wait till season 3? [/quote] The same feeders, are also on the other team (Statistics states that every team is equally likely to get any player on their team, so we can conclude that it is equally as likely for either team to get feeders, so it isn't a big problem in the elo system, it just forces you to play more games in order to place yourself at the proper elo.) Feeders are a lot less of an impact than you would think over the course of several hundred games.[/quote]

[quote=Darcurse]First youre right: Youre mixed up with some rnds after all (if you solo-queue, that is) But your mates should be the same as your opponents, around your own ELO. (Thats were one of the bigger flaws of LoL ELO actually kicks in: Both teams are compiled of better/worse players and whats actually matched up are the two average ELOs. But the differences between all players shouldnt be greater than 50-60 points, normally..) Maybe youve already looked around a bit, so that you found terms like "Elo Hell". It describes a state in which ppl are teamed up with some bad ones permanently, thus dropping in ELO unjustified. IMO it's possible with enough "bad luck" but it's a highly controversial after all. The main problem is that the whole system bases on the idea that nobody is actually "trying to lose", everbody is indeed as strong as the ELO indicates and ppl are matched up properly. But seeing ppl who dont even understand the game's basics walking the planes of ~1.6k, while 1.2k is the starting line and +2.0k considered top-notch... you get the idea.[/quote]

[quote=Lugignaf]@ roest: Uhh... no. ELO, in a nutshell, is the ability of player X to win in a 1v1 scenario. This is not the case in League obviously. Also, the ELO system for LoL does not account for the possibility of draws which can not occur here. If you are [b]clearly[/b] not in the correct ELO, your will fall or drop over the course of many games accordingly. [b]IF[/b] you are clearly in the wrong ELO, wrong being too low, you should be able to carry yourself out, or at least higher. While this is not always the case in solo queue, you can definitely change your rating for better, or worse, by duo-queueing with someone else. Of course, duo-ing will result in you playing harder matches simply because the person you are queueing with probably has higher ELO. IF you win that however, you will get more ELO compared to your higher ELO buddy who will get less because of the lower skill difference between the opposing team and their own skill.[/quote]

[quote=roest21]during this time i have dropped even more in ELO 2 more games with 1 leaver in each... you might not consider that system flawed.. but i do..[/quote]

[quote=ZioSerpe]The real problem is the 1150-1300 range because there's a lot of players who just got to lvl 30 and rank, so their lvl of skills cannot be measured correctly as they have no ranked games.[/quote]

[quote=Darcurse]Nothing against anybody here, but the main argument of ppl who consider the ELO system is working correctly to an extend that gives you the possibility to actually change sth in the long run normally results in.. "It's ok, since it can also happen to your enemy!" But in fact nobody could answer you if not. +You dont need to lose every game thx to a bad team just losing some will let you wind up in the wrong spot. Ofc this also works the other way around. Ppl end up too high thx to some DC/AFK/Leave at the enemy team.[/quote]

[quote=Temzilla][quote=Lugignaf] @ roest: Uhh... no. ELO, in a nutshell, is the ability of player X to win in a 1v1 scenario. This is not the case in League obviously. Also, the ELO system for LoL does not account for the possibility of draws which can not occur here. If you are [b]clearly[/b] not in the correct ELO, your will fall or drop over the course of many games accordingly. [b]IF[/b] you are clearly in the wrong ELO, wrong being too low, you should be able to carry yourself out, or at least higher. While this is not always the case in solo queue, you can definitely change your rating for better, or worse, by duo-queueing with someone else. Of course, duo-ing will result in you playing harder matches simply because the person you are queueing with probably has higher ELO. IF you win that however, you will get more ELO compared to your higher ELO buddy who will get less because of the lower skill difference between the opposing team and their own skill. [/quote] When you duo queue, matchmaking adds elo to your average elo to compensate for communication/teamwork. I was saying that, over a large amount of games, both you, and your opponent has had the same number of trolls, so the trolls don't even come into the equation because they cancel each other out. ELO is a solid rating system. In practice, the problem is that it is difficult to carry yourself to high elo because of the amount of trolls and d/c's.[/quote]