Defense Tree vs Utility Tree

[quote=Visfarix]I believe that the Utility Tree is massively overrated and the Defense Tree is also very underrated. I recently bought Annie because I had a lot of IP saved up and I had fun playing during her free weeks, so I decided to pick her up even though I already main another caster/nuker(Anivia). It turns out all the problems I have with Utility Tree Anivia also show up on Annie. In fact some are even WORSE than on Anivia. So now I want to do a tier-by-tier breakdown of both Mastery Trees and show why everyone is so terribly misguided and why the Defense Tree is better for some mages than the Utility Tree. A lot of thought and research went into this so I hope you don't just blow it off. I won't include the Masteries that improve summoner spells because they take up too much space and what they do is pretty apparent. PS: I wanted to put up icons/tooltips of the masteries along with its name but I don't think mobafire has them stored because some of the mastery names overlap with champion skills(ie. Perseverance=Garen passive). So you'll have to go to the wikia or something if you want to know what these masteries do exactly. [url=http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Mastery]http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Mastery[/url] [u][b]Tier 1 Masteries[/b][/u] [u]Defensive Tree[/u] [b]Resistance[/b]: At max rank this will give you magic damage reduction of about 2-3% depending on your MR. Doesn't do much by itself, but stacked with the rest of the tree it can make a bit of difference. [b]Hardiness[/b]: At max rank this will give you physical damage reduction of about 2-3% depending on your AR. Doesn't do much by itself, but stacked with the rest of the tree it can make a bit of difference. [u]Utility Tree[/u] [b]Good Hands[/b]: Retarded Mastery, if you need me to spell out why... [b]Perseverance[/b]: This is a negligible mastery. 4% increased HP/MP regeneration isn't much even when you have craploads of it. This will hardly make a difference Conclusion: At tier 1 utility masteries just don't do much of anything. Defensive masteries are only slightly better and thats only if you get the higher tier stuff. [u][b]Tier 2 Masteries[/b][/u] [u]Defensive Tree[/u] [b]Strength of Spirit[/b]: Perhaps the most underrated mastery of all time, probably because it's also one of the least understood masteries. At max ranks you get .3% of your maxMP in HP regen. However it is not HP regen/5sec like most ppl assume, but HP regen/sec. At 1000 maxMP and max ranks in SoS thats the equivalent of having 1 Rebirth Pendant. For those mages that stack MP like crack addicts, this will easily give them anywhere from 30-60 HP regen/5sec easily turning them into mini off-tanks if they grab some survivability items like [[Banshee's Veil]]. [b]Evasion[/b]: A staple of many DPS and manaless champs for the mastery it leads into. This mastery is quite good. [u]Utility Tree[/u] [b]Awareness[/b]: This mastery is key for all junglers and useful for many others as well. While not particularly noticeable, its effect is pretty substantial over the course of the game and is particularly good when paired up with Zilean's passive. Still somewhat overrated imo, but it is a very good mastery indeed. [b]Expanded Mind[/b]: This is a bad and negligible mastery. 5% of your maxMP is barely anything. At level 1 this could amount to a whole 25 extra MP if you grab a [[Sapphire Crystal]]. At lvl 18 even if you stacked 4 [[Archangel's Staff]]s on a champion with high base MP, you'll still probably end up with less than 200 extra MP and 24 AP from Archangel's. Conclusion: SoS and Evasion are both quite good but cater to different types of champions. Awareness is a great general mastery for all champions, though sometimes you just can't get it because there are other things that benefit you more. Expanded Mind just plain sucks. [b][u]Tier 3 Masteries[/u][/b] [u]Defensive Tree[/u] [b]Defensive Mastery[/b]: Minions deal a little less damage to you. Pretty ineffectual. only any good during the laning phase when you have little AR and MR and minions can actually kill you from constant attacks. Only reason to get it is cause you can't really get anything else. [b]Nimbleness[/b]: Must have if you get max ranks in Evasion. The movement speed buff is amazing on champions that have a lot of dodge, especially if you're surrounded by minions. [b]Harden Skin[/b]: Blocks at most 2 physical damage. IMO this is pretty bad too. Just get 1 point in this if you got nothing else to get from the Defense Tree. [u]Utility Tree[/u] [b]Greed[/b]: 6 gold/min = 36 gold every 6 mins = 1 [[Health Potion]] Thats how I like to think of this mastery. Otherwise the gold you get is fairly negligible. [b]Meditation[/b]: Overrated mastery. Sure the the MP regen is great if you like or need to spam spells early game(ie Nidalee, Heimerdinger), but I find it's mostly just a crutch for players with bad MP management skills. Champions like Annie and Anivia simply don't need it with good MP management. Last hit and some harassment with your spells will usually result in you keeping around half your MP reserve by level 4 with just base MP regen, MP regen/lvl seals, and the mana you get from leveling up. BUT WAIT. You say, "Anivia doesn't need MP regen??? Are you stupid or something???" Inefficiently spamming your spells for random damage on your opponents during laning phase is just plain stupid and why I say Meditation is a crutch for players with bad MP management. By the time you get Anivia's ulti at lvl 6, Meditation's MP regen is ineffectually small and pointless. [b]Utility Mastery[/b]: Of all the specific Tree Masteries(ie Offensive Mastery, Defensive Mastery, Utility Mastery), this one is by far the best. On SR, it will extend the Lizard Elder and Ancient Golem buffs by 45 seconds and Baron Nashor buff by over 2 mins! Not sure about TT but I'm pretty sure it's dam good there too. Conclusion: At this tier Defensive Mastery and Harden Skin reduce tiny amounts of damage and are only a lil useful during the laning phase. Nimbleness is superb on champions that can utilize it. Greed is good for getting that tiny bit of extra gold for completing items and getting consumables(ie [[Health Potion]], [[Sight Ward]], [[Vision Ward]]). Meditation is necessary on a number of champions, but still massively overrated. People think, "Oh I'm playing a mage. I need MP regen so I can spam my spells! DUUUUURR HURP-A-DERP-DERP!" Stupid! On many champions it is simply a crutch for bad MP management. If you learn how to manage your MP wisely and not waste it on random spells, you will find your game skills improving drastically. [b][u]Tiers 4-6 Masteries[/u][/b] [u]Defensive Tree[/u] [b]Veteran's Scars[/b]: At max rank this is basically 60 free HP for you. SO GOOD in the laning phase. Why do you think people use straight HP quints and/or grab the Doran's items as their first item? Because HP is just that important in the early game. [b]Ardor[/b]: Increase your AS and AP by 2% and up to 4% at lvl 8. The AS effect is basically similar in application to AS items, but the AP effect is more like that of [[Zhonya's Ring]]. In fact, I believe that it stacks multiplicatively with Zhonya's so you would basically be getting about a 30% increase to your AP [b]Tenacity[/b]: Straight up take 4% less damage from everything. With Tier 1 Resistance and Hardiness, You basically take about 6-7% less damage from everything [u]Utility Tree[/u] [b]Quickness[/b]: This skill is somewhat negligible. A 3% boost to your speed at max ranks means you'll maybe move slightly faster than before. You really only get to see it's effect if you get a really high mobility champion that gets [[Boots of Mobility]] or has innate abilities that will boost his/her speed(ie Teemo, Sona, Evelynn). [b]Intelligence[/b]: This skill is awesome! 6% CDR at max ranks? yes please! [b]Presence of the Master[/b]: This is arguably the best mastery in the game IMO. Depends on how much you value Summoner Spells(SS). It actually trumps all the "improved SS" masteries in terms of SS CDR(ie Improved heal reduces Heal's CD to 240 seconds while Presence of the Master will reduce it to 229.5 seconds; getting both will further reduce the CD time). Conclusion: Except for Quickness, all the masteries from the Defensive and Utility Tree at Tiers 4-6 are excellent. It really just depends on which one will benefit you more. So there you go. Questions, comments, throw em all at me. I'll answer everything to the best of my ability. Too long? Didn't read? let me break it down for you TL;DR - Utiltiy tree is overrated on mages. Sometimes the Defense Tree is more useful for mages than the Utility Tree.[/quote]

[quote=Chaotic Bliss]I think that Defense can be used for some casters. There are some that can take a huge beating and keep going. Morgana for one. She is one tough chick. She can benefit more from the defense masteries. Now, Annie is a champ that can nuke someone very fast. Granted you need a Tibbers-Stun to do it with little dmg. I think that She can get some great use out of defense, but she is a great farmer. Awareness is great for her since she acn farm entire creep waves. And thats a fair amount of XP if she can manage it solo. Not to mention the gold she gets. Her CDs make her a beast if she gets going. I mean Disentigration with a low CD is a nasty nuke. Some champs do need that bulkiness, and some need the support out of Utility. Those that runn pure support, its good to have the XP, regen (even though its not much), movement, buff duration (golem), ect. That my opinion though. Some casters that find themselves in the middle of a team fight, Fiddle, Morgana, Nunu, etc, should take some Defense Masteries. If they are gonna be standing back, Annie, Janna, etc, Utility isnt bad for them. Annie can get stacks for her stun faily quick, and Janna is by far the best disabler in the game. I think that Masteries depend on where the caster should be in team fights.[/quote]

[quote=Visfarix]Yea, which tree to take really depends on your role in a particular match. But even so sometimes taking the popular Utility Tree just because "it helps" doesn't make it better for that champion. For Annie, being a great farmer doesn't really make the Utility Tree better for her. In fact I would argue that it makes it worse for her. Being such a capable farmer means that she can make up for the experience Awareness would grant her by simply farming more minions. I believe Awareness truly shines for junglers because they are the ones who aren't guaranteed a steady income of experience, and therefore need every single scrap they can get. Whenever I play caster nukes, like Anivia and Annie, the only things that I really miss when I take the Defense Tree over the Utility Tree are the CDR, Summoner Spell CDR, and the increased buff time from Utility Mastery. Everything else in the Utility Tree can be easily made up for with skillful play. Thus making about 2/3rds of the Utility Tree a crutch that is unnecessary, and even inhibits player improvement.[/quote]

[quote=HeAt]I usually go 9 utility 21 def, for most casters, because you do get the 4% bonus AP by going through the defensive tree, which when combined with 1 point in offense on the AP you get 16 + lets say you have 600 on your carry so 616 (at least) then 4% of that is about a bonus 25 Ap, good stuff xD. i almost always do anyway, sometimes i run offense and util (if i have a defensive book) but some type of early survivability is necessary. Nothing is scarier than a ashe starting with 700+ HP :) - HeAt[/quote]

[quote=Chaotic Bliss]I think that Junglers dont really need the extra XP. I know that they dont have the steady minions to farm, but they get 100% of the experience. They dont have to share a lane so its like they are in a solo lane. And personally, I like to share my lane with the jungler. They come and far some creeps and hold the lane while I recall and when I get back they can return to their Jungle route or go ganking. That extra XP is great for mass farmers IMO. Annie, Janna, Alistar, etc. The ability to farm full waves, and get the extra XP just makes more sence to me. Im not saying that what you are saying is wrong Vis. Im just saying that Junglers arent the only ones that can reap max benefits of the extra XP. I guess it all comes down to play style[/quote]

[quote=capi][quote=Chaotic Bliss] I think that Junglers dont really need the extra XP. I know that they dont have the steady minions to farm, but they get 100% of the experience. They dont have to share a lane so its like they are in a solo lane. And personally, I like to share my lane with the jungler. They come and far some creeps and hold the lane while I recall and when I get back they can return to their Jungle route or go ganking. Im not saying that what you are saying is wrong Vis. Im just saying that Junglers arent the only ones that can reap max benefits of the extra XP. I guess it all comes down to play style [/quote] I haven't been playing LoL that long, but I can tell you from the games that I have played without the boost in XP as a Jungler, you really do need it. Not because we share a lane or not, but because as a jungler, you should be leveling as quickly to gank top and bot lanes (and if lucky mid). I played a match a few nights ago where I used Warwick and totally forgot to change my masteries, so no extra XP, and no increase buff duration. Anyway, in 5v5, after double golem, I'm always level 2. By the time I do banshees/wolves and blue buff, I'm atleast level 4 maybe even 5 and will go top or bot (depending if I'm blue or purple side of map). Well the game without the utility masteries, after golems, I was still half way to level 2. After banshees I hit 2, no where even near 3, and if I remember I had to go into their jungle as a level 3 in order to hit 4 or 5. I was consistently behind atleast 2 or 3 levels until level 12 or so where I caught up and was able to get a few kills in. IMO (any many other junglers I've talked to) XP boost is mandatory for a great jungling start.[/quote]

[quote=Visfarix][quote=capi] I haven't been playing LoL that long, but I can tell you from the games that I have played without the boost in XP as a Jungler, you really do need it. Not because we share a lane or not, but because as a jungler, you should be leveling as quickly to gank top and bot lanes (and if lucky mid). I played a match a few nights ago where I used Warwick and totally forgot to change my masteries, so no extra XP, and no increase buff duration. Anyway, in 5v5, after double golem, I'm always level 2. By the time I do banshees/wolves and blue buff, I'm atleast level 4 maybe even 5 and will go top or bot (depending if I'm blue or purple side of map). Well the game without the utility masteries, after golems, I was still half way to level 2. After banshees I hit 2, no where even near 3, and if I remember I had to go into their jungle as a level 3 in order to hit 4 or 5. I was consistently behind atleast 2 or 3 levels until level 12 or so where I caught up and was able to get a few kills in. IMO (any many other junglers I've talked to) XP boost is mandatory for a great jungling start. [/quote] lol I was about to post something like this, but I took too long to formulate my response and capi beat me to the punch. And btw capi is totally right. I've played a couple games as junglers and even though i'm not particularly good at them, the experience boost from Awareness mastery is absolutely essential for fast lvl up to proceed with ganking. For example many junglers, like shaco, start at the Ancient Golem camp for the blu buff and to get to level 2 right off the bat, but if you don't take Awareness mastery you end up with 1% of exp left to go to level 2 and that greatly slows you down, not to mention you get less experience from all the other creep camps as well.[/quote]

[quote=ExamplePrime]I'm a defence tree whore I mean I think its just plain awesome[/quote]

[quote=capi][quote=Visfarix] lol I was about to post something like this, but I took too long to formulate my response and capi beat me to the punch. And btw capi is totally right. I've played a couple games as junglers and even though i'm not particularly good at them, the experience boost from Awareness mastery is absolutely essential for fast lvl up to proceed with ganking. For example many junglers, like shaco, start at the Ancient Golem camp for the blu buff and to get to level 2 right off the bat, but if you don't take Awareness mastery you end up with 1% of exp left to go to level 2 and that greatly slows you down, not to mention you get less experience from all the other creep camps as well. [/quote] Glad to see that after a little over a month, I'm able to establish an opinion that others agree with :)[/quote]

[quote=Chaotic Bliss]Guys Im not saying that Junglers dont benefit. Im saying that the extra XP is valuable to laners too. Im all for Junglers having that extra boost. Imo working on Jungling myself and yeah. Im not disagreeing Im just saying that everyone can use it.[/quote]