Finally, Wriggle's gets usefull?

[quote=Embracing]Counterjungling is hardly as impactful to the game as a jungler than successfully ganking and creating opportunities for skirmishes. Junglers value sustain, health, scaling, and burst early on. Take into account these when considering viability.[/quote]

[quote=utopus][quote=Embracing] Counterjungling is hardly as impactful to the game as a jungler than successfully ganking and creating opportunities for skirmishes. Junglers value sustain, health, scaling, and burst early on. Take into account these when considering viability. [/quote] To reiterate what embracing is saying, Gankability (Through CC & gap closers) is valued most, [i]followed by[/i] sustain, health, scaling and high base damages. I probably didn't need to say that, but i think some people might have misinterpreted that[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy]And why then junglers taken over [[nautilus]], [[rammus]] and stuff like that, which have the best ganks possible? Only CC doesn't seem to be enough these days, high base damages are valued at the same level.[/quote]

[quote=xIchi]As long as a Jungler excells in either: Sustain, Speed or Damage he is viable. The ganks/cc is either a nice extra or at a certain level, or how would you explain those Shyvanna/Nocturne Junglers huh?[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy][quote=xIchi] As long as a Jungler excells in either: Sustain, Speed or Damage he is viable. The ganks/cc is either a nice extra or at a certain level, or how would you explain those Shyvanna/Nocturne Junglers huh? [/quote] He has to have at least some CC, otherwise, [[mordekaiser]] jungle or [[master yi]] jungle would be king because of their speed. [[mordekaiser]] also has infinite sustain with [[spirit stone]] and high damage and is probably as fast as [[shyvana]].[/quote]

[quote=utopus][quote=NicknameMy] And why then junglers taken over [[nautilus]], [[rammus]] and stuff like that, which have the best ganks possible? Only CC doesn't seem to be enough these days, high base damages are valued at the same level. [/quote] High base damages won't really mean much, if you can't get to your opponents though, hm? Garen has some pretty nice base damages, but it doesn't really matter if he can't get to his target, does it?[/quote]

[quote=Embracing]I did mention burst did I not...? What Ichi said is correct but that only proves viability. Optimal jungle picks fit what the meta seeks for in team compositions. As of now, because junglers don't have a fast enough income rate and opportunities to fully devote to tanking, top laners have taken that role. Damage junglers also became much stronger with their smooth transition with the spirit items, which is why damage / carry junglers what people pick.[/quote]

[quote=Fat_fast][quote=NicknameMy] He has to have at least some CC, otherwise, [[mordekaiser]] jungle or [[master yi]] jungle would be king because of their speed. [[mordekaiser]] also has infinite sustain with [[spirit stone]] and high damage and is probably as fast as [[shyvana]]. [/quote] Are we talking about [u]viable[/u] jungler here or [u]good[/u] jungler?[/quote]