Karma, tanky AP

[quote=lifebaka][quote=Lugignaf] They are apparently pushing her into the more AP mage role while still maintaining the "support aspect" on her as well. She's getting some hard CC, which people say she was lacking with her only CC being an unreliable AoE slow while also bumping up raw numbers to maker her feel more impactful as a support. They're also changing up mantra effects to make them feel more like an ultimate. All this is what I've picked up from bumming the official forums so, don't 100% quote me on it. [/quote] Without knowing the exact changes, I can't really comment on them, but if they're along those lines I don't see how they would offend anyone who likes Karma. Except that it'll cause people to yell about Karma being OP for a while after such a rework, and she might get hotfixed like Shen did. I've found that the single most limiting thing about Karma as a support is the weakness of her shield and heal. Her heal is just not capable of putting out big numbers except on high HP champions that are nearly dead and carries no other benefits (compare to [[Astral Blessing]], which is pretty big and worth a bunch of armor too), plus its use is capped by how often Karma has Mantra up. Her shield, while just as large as similar shields, doesn't really have their utility (compare to [[Help, Pix!]] and [[Eye Of The Storm]], with their buffs to whoever gets shielded); sure, it does damage when combined with Mantra, but not as much as an AD carry could do with the damage buffs from other shields. Because of this, Karma is not as able to help her carry win trades as other supports, and so her carry tends to lose trades, which results in lost lanes. I'm not sure what Riot might change to help fix this issue, but it would probably require a fundamental rework of what her Q and E do, especially when combined with Mantra. Also, the Mantra effect on [[Spirit Bond]] really needs a rework, because it just feels like the single least useful Mantra effect on all of Karma's skills, in virtually every scenario. The skill itself seems fine, though.[/quote]

[quote=tehAsian]I think [[karma]] fits a Tanky comp to fully make use of her heals and shield. Have someone run in, have rest of team follow, R+Shield someone and do damage, R+Q to heal, have high mobility champion like [[irelia]] to direct your chain, etc.[/quote]

[quote=Klausenheim]Yeah lifebaka, you really can't but her bottom lane as support right now. Your AD will get bullied and underfed, and you will be absolutely worthless due to a lack of gold. If they do decide to push her into the support roll, they need to give one of her abilities an additional benefit (as well as fixing her dire gold dependency). She needs an AD buff, AP buff etc. something to compete with the other supports. Literally *ever* other support has one of these. Probably the easiest one to throw it in with would be [[Spirit Bond]] Maybe add a %AS increase that increases along with the movement speed (direct rip off of [[Blood Boil]] OR I would prefer something a little more unique. It would be cool to see a straight damage steroid that deals magic damage (an on-demand [[Wit's End]] basically), or a % slow (an on-demand [[Frozen Mallet]]).[/quote]

[quote=animorte]I play Soraka, Karma, and now Lulu (to an extent) as Mid AP Carries. They have a retarded amount of utility [b][u]WITH[/u][/b] AP ratios. I just can NOT play a completely AP based champion without AP. That's retarded. Why not build AP [u]and[/u] deal damage while supporting? Soraka has some of the best harass and sustained damage in the game. Karma is absolutely the only champion that can deal damage to an entire enemy team while healing the entire allied team. Oh yeah, she can also slow your whole team while speeding hers up as well as shielding somebody in danger of death while hurting everybody near. Don't tell me that isn't some of the best utility + damage in the game. People just generally suck with her, sadly... I have to be honest. Some of the best champions in the game that can throw down damage while being able to take a hit, through whatever may be their unique way, are as follows: Mordekaiser, Amumu, Cho'Gath, Nidalee, Shyvana, and Karma. What do they all have in common? Tons of AoE and some form of reliable shield/defensive capabilities.[/quote]

[quote=JMastiff]The fun that comes from playing Karma in line is effective denial of farm for meele champs w/ mantra-ed shield (E). With her need to get good amount of CDR (Mantra regen) to be viable later makes her even more anti-meele due to Glacial Shroud/Frozen Heart armor/ASdebuff bonuses. I'd play her solo-top meele counter, she fits fine there and that would be her role line-wise at the moment. You just need to get your comp right later, she gets more useful w/ tanky champs in team.[/quote]