When playing 
Karma, there are important things you should remember when playing her as a support:
When Mantra is used, all of your abilities have additional effects, and here are those:
1. Inner Flame -> Soulflare - Useful in teamfights especially when the enemy is clumped together.
2. Focused Resolve -> Renewal - When in low health and someone is chasing you, use this ability to replenish your health and root them, making a clear hit of Inner Flame.
3. Inspire -> Defiance - Useful when engaing a teamfight for you're making a shield for you allies.
Hope this helps you! But if you're still confused, there's one guide for Karma that should aid you. I shouldn't post that though, for it is indicated by the rules here.
Karma, there are important things you should remember when playing her as a support:- Try to poke the enemy Carry/Support with Inner Flame, just be mindful of your mana because you'll get depleted eventually.
- Use Focused Resolve to catch enemies out of position. Be wary though, for it requires a close range to link the tether.
- Inspire is a good engaging/disengaging tool. It has a movement speed bonus and shield that is useful when chasing/retreating and shield some damage.
- Her ultimate, Mantra, empowers all of your abilities, so you should analyze the situation before using it.
When
Mantra is used, all of your abilities have additional effects, and here are those:1.
Inner Flame -> Soulflare - Useful in teamfights especially when the enemy is clumped together.2.
Focused Resolve -> Renewal - When in low health and someone is chasing you, use this ability to replenish your health and root them, making a clear hit of Inner Flame.3.
Inspire -> Defiance - Useful when engaing a teamfight for you're making a shield for you allies.Hope this helps you! But if you're still confused, there's one guide for
Karma that should aid you. I shouldn't post that though, for it is indicated by the rules here.
Thanks to MissMaw for the sig!
Sticks and stones may break my bones, b*tch you can't phase me.
Ranked Misadventures
Ranked Misadventures
I agree with most of that, but I'd like to note that Karma's mana costs are actually pretty forgiving. Provided you aren't spamming and missing Inner Flame constantly, the damage you can deal for the mana you're spending is actually much better than many other champions.
Another good thing to know is that Inner Flame actually deals damage in a small burst, so you can hit minions that are adjacent to enemies with it to land harass on them (even if they're trying to avoid damage by simply being behind their minions). Remember that this pushes the lane though. If you don't want to push, you'll have to maneuver around to land harass. Inspire is mostly good for minor disengages/chasing/helping an ally avoid skill shots like Death Sentence, but you can also just block poke with it if necessary. Focused Resolve is decent for counter-engaging, as well as chasing or simply locking down targets who are out of position, as you can punish champions with little to no disengage by snaring them and forcing them to take a lot of extra damage. In lane, unless you have reason to believe you'll need Defiance to disengage, you can actually use Mantra pretty frequently to deal extra damage with Soulflare as long as you remember to use Gathering Fire effectively to lower its cooldown.
I'd also like to comment that, especially as support Karma, the times you will ever use Renewal are few and far between. Most of the time you should, when playing support, save Mantra for Defiance if you think a teamfight is likely unless you're sieging them under tower or want the extra damage/slows from Soulflare to hamper them heavily. Defiance actually deals pretty decent AoE damage given that it's basically automatic and the extra movement speed is pretty much always useful in teamfights.
Might add more to this post later, it's ~2:25 am and I'm tired xD
Karma's mana costs are actually pretty forgiving. Provided you aren't spamming and missing Inner Flame constantly, the damage you can deal for the mana you're spending is actually much better than many other champions.Another good thing to know is that
Inner Flame actually deals damage in a small burst, so you can hit minions that are adjacent to enemies with it to land harass on them (even if they're trying to avoid damage by simply being behind their minions). Remember that this pushes the lane though. If you don't want to push, you'll have to maneuver around to land harass. Inspire is mostly good for minor disengages/chasing/helping an ally avoid skill shots like Death Sentence, but you can also just block poke with it if necessary. Focused Resolve is decent for counter-engaging, as well as chasing or simply locking down targets who are out of position, as you can punish champions with little to no disengage by snaring them and forcing them to take a lot of extra damage. In lane, unless you have reason to believe you'll need Defiance to disengage, you can actually use Mantra pretty frequently to deal extra damage with Soulflare as long as you remember to use Gathering Fire effectively to lower its cooldown.I'd also like to comment that, especially as support
Karma, the times you will ever use Renewal are few and far between. Most of the time you should, when playing support, save Mantra for Defiance if you think a teamfight is likely unless you're sieging them under tower or want the extra damage/slows from Soulflare to hamper them heavily. Defiance actually deals pretty decent AoE damage given that it's basically automatic and the extra movement speed is pretty much always useful in teamfights.Might add more to this post later, it's ~2:25 am and I'm tired xD
Thanks guys! As far as Karma goes I lvl up W last, I actually more than anything use it to root someone if someone is trying to jump my ADC, I can't remember ever ulting with it.
Mostly I tend to Ult with my Q, the E I use to try and save my ADC or help them chase someone down, but I rarely ult the E.
Mostly I tend to Ult with my Q, the E I use to try and save my ADC or help them chase someone down, but I rarely ult the E.
njdfan wrote:
Ahri is my fav but I usually hover between a little positive or a somewhat negative with her, and I feel that she's strong enough that I should be doing better, especially since I dont run into her hard counter, Malzahar, too much.
Could you expand on this a little so I can help you the best I can? I could blast you with a ton of general information but I think it would be better if I told you specifics about the areas you struggle in. Is it the early game and pre-6? Is it mid game and roaming? Late game and team fighting? Mana efficiency in lane? Matchups to avoid? Dying too much? Not sure what to build?
Just some examples of more specific problems you may be having, feel free to ask me anything else too. I'm always happy to help!
I can't take back the words I never said
TheSilverDust wrote:
May I ask a question about Ahri, is it good to quick cast Orb of Deception and Charm? I am having troubles when we are having teamfights when I normal cast them.
Ahri, is it good to quick cast Orb of Deception and Charm? I am having troubles when we are having teamfights when I normal cast them.For sure! I learned smart cast before Ahri even came out, but I highly recommend anyone to try and learn it. The benefits are very real, especially with Ahri in order to pull off Charm/Orb Flash plays and in general it just makes the champion smoother to play. It will definitely take a while to get used to and it will definitely feel wrong at first, but once you get used to it you will wonder why you didn't learn it sooner!
You can also use Smart Cast with range indicators which lets you hold down the skill to get the range. I don't personally use this because I know Ahri better than I know myself :D but it's a good mix of the 2. You can still see the range when you require it but you have the skill on quick cast with each single press.
I can't take back the words I never said
Elusive Ferret wrote:
Could you expand on this a little so I can help you the best I can? I could blast you with a ton of general information but I think it would be better if I told you specifics about the areas you struggle in. Is it the early game and pre-6? Is it mid game and roaming? Late game and team fighting? Mana efficiency in lane? Matchups to avoid? Dying too much? Not sure what to build?
Just some examples of more specific problems you may be having, feel free to ask me anything else too. I'm always happy to help!
A lot of it is giving up first kill in laning phase. I think honestly some of it is I get too jumpy and spaz out a little, or not sure what to expect. Although I will say the last game I got waxed was pretty much 90% Rengar camping the heck out of me haha. I do OK as using my E to get me out of trouble but in general I make either bad decisions initiating, or getting outfarmed. That is one thing honestly I need to get better at with everyone.
My main combo is I land E (hopefully, if not I back off and wait for it to regen), throw my Q, walk towards them a bit, then W. Usually throw my ignite in there as well. Even with somewhat squishy champs this never seems to be enough, I will follow up with R but the thing I don't like about her R when trying to use it to kill is there's a short cooldown between the 3 uses, and usually by then help is on the way...then I have no R to escape help and all my skills are spent. So maybe the reality is I just need to farm better and focus a little less on rushing items and a little more on vision and awareness. I have dabbled just a bit into buying different items, particularly Rlais crystal scepter - i like the slow on it and has good AP and helps Ahri be a little less squishy.
P.S. I think I have your Ahri guide bookmarked, it's literally the best guide I've read if it's the one I'm thinking of.
njdfan wrote:
A lot of it is giving up first kill in laning phase. I think honestly some of it is I get too jumpy and spaz out a little, or not sure what to expect. Although I will say the last game I got waxed was pretty much 90% Rengar camping the heck out of me haha. I do OK as using my E to get me out of trouble but in general I make either bad decisions initiating, or getting outfarmed. That is one thing honestly I need to get better at with everyone.
My main combo is I land E (hopefully, if not I back off and wait for it to regen), throw my Q, walk towards them a bit, then W. Usually throw my ignite in there as well. Even with somewhat squishy champs this never seems to be enough, I will follow up with R but the thing I don't like about her R when trying to use it to kill is there's a short cooldown between the 3 uses, and usually by then help is on the way...then I have no R to escape help and all my skills are spent. So maybe the reality is I just need to farm better and focus a little less on rushing items and a little more on vision and awareness.
P.S. I think I have your Ahri guide bookmarked, it's literally the best guide I've read if it's the one I'm thinking of.
Warning: Huge Wall of Text. Right, here we go! Going off after this message but I will check the thread tomorrow if you have anymore questions.
If you find yourself giving up a kill during the lane phase, you might be playing too aggressively. Ahri does not have a very strong early game and the way that you should play out the lane phase is by utilising the 880 range on her Orb and only going forward to last hit a minion or champion if they are melee. The way that you should do this is by weaving in and out, so that you are not always stood in auto range of minions which for Ahri is 550. By staying back and only going up to auto for the CS you stay out of range of most champions abilities and it helps prevent you from taking free damage. Doing this is more important in the first 1-3 levels because Ahri doesn't trade very well with a level 1 Orb, not to mention that you could miss the Orb entirely. When the enemy is playing very far back also then you don't have to worry about doing this too much. If it is a melee champion then don't be fooled by their range because most melee mid champions have very effective forms of harass whether it is from a Zed Shuriken, Talon Rake or Yasuo with his creep surf and Q.
As Ahri when you enter the lane phase you have you mind focused around the fact that Orb is your main tool for the lane. For harassing the enemy, farming the minions and gaining health back with your passive. Don't even think about your E or W when it comes solely to the lane phase. You should never be in range to use your W unless one of the following situations occur: 1. You are being ganked and the extra damage from W can help deter the enemy from going on you 2. You are receiving a gank and you need the extra damage to try and get the kill/force the enemy out of lane & 3. When the enemy is low and you go in for a kill, with or without Charm. The 3rd situation shouldn't occur much pre-6 unless it is a melee mid like Kat/Yasuo. Always and I mean alllllwaaaays save your Charm for when it is truly needed. One of the biggest mistakes I see in Ahri players is that they randomly throw out Charms during the lane phase in the hopes to hit it. You must be smart when using Charm and think very carefully before and when you use it. This is why I stress so much that you should not be even attempting a Charm in the first few levels. You need to save it for when you get ganked or receive one and even if you do land a Charm at say level 3, you will be using up 150+ mana for 200~ damage from the Charm + Orb, which they can heal with just 1 potion. Not only that, but you will also have no safety mechanism for the next 12 seconds and you become extremely vulnerable to a gank. Ahri's Orb is such a great tool for the lane phase because you can out range most champions with it and you should use the range of 880 to your advantage by not needing to be so close to the enemy.
You shouldn't go into a lane as Ahri and expect to get a kill pre-6. Focus on playing safe, keeping your distance from the enemy and weaving in and out for CS/harassing with Q. Something that you should avoid though is being pushed into tower because Ahri is awful at CS'ing under tower and it can often be where you will fall behind on CS. Make sure that you pay attention to how the enemy is playing the lane. If you see them auto'ing the **** out of the minions immediately, do the same. If they are using abilities to push the wave, do the same with Q. Try to line up the Q so that it passes through the minions and hits them at the end, even if it misses, your primary objective was to hit all the minions anyway so hitting the champion too is just an added bonus.
The last thing I can say about avoiding early deaths is to start Boots + 3/4 potions in the matchups where you WILL be getting hit a lot, or you could even start Flask. A very common mathup where I actually take boots now is vs Zed because a Zed that uses his shade offensively can really bully Ahri in lane. The speed from boots makes it easier to dodge the Shurikens and the extra pots keep you topped up in health for when you do get hit. Doran's Ring is ideal for Ahri, but it is not essential because you are not an aggressive champion pre-6. Also don't worry about thinking that you may be playing to passively, I play extremely passively with Ahri. Passive does not mean afraid though, playing passively is much more strategic than being recklass and trying to go for kills all the time. Take the trades that you are confident you can win and avoid the ones you will lose. When Q is on cooldown stay way back because Q is her main tool for the lane phase. Poke them down with Q whenever you get the chance and prep a kill once you are almost 6 so that you can instantly go all in and catch them off guard. (For that part I recommend learning to level up skills using CTRL+Ability so that you can instantly level the ability up without it causing a hindrance on your gameplay/focus) Remember... pre-6 play passive but play smart and be strategic with what you plan on doing. Don't just recklessly go in.
Without being 5-6 items into your build, you need to poke them down with an Orb or 2 before you can go all in and secure a kill now. Make sure that when you do hit a Q, you wait for the cooldown to be back before going in, but also don't wait too long because they will regen the health you just took off. If you ever hesitate going in, then don't go in. You have to be 100% committed when going in for a kill/play because if you are not 100% committed to what you are about to do or if you are second guessing yourself then the chances of the play working are much, much lower for 2 reasons. The first is that you are doubting yourself so you are already unsure that the play will work. The second reason is that if you hesitate more time will pass and the situation or circumstances will chagce such as champion position or cooldowns. You have the standard combo down fine, although it is much better to set up a kill with a hit on Orb and then going in using her ultimate to position for the Charm. The combo in this case would be Q, wait, W + Ult, Charm, Orb, Ult, Ult. The reason that I W before Ulting rather than using W after the Charm lands is because there is a short delay in the firing of the Fox-Fires and they will go off at the end of the dash. It also means that the Fox-Fires will all go off slightly sooner than if you waited for the Charm to land or after you ult in and so the coolown would be started sooner. It doesn't matter too much but I prefer to do it this way. You also don't have to use Charm right away. I will often use 2 charges of Spirit Rush before going for a Charm. The longer you hold it the more time you have to prepare and aim it. It also comes in very handy for champions that have some form of dash/teleport like Ezreal/Kha/Zed/Gnar etc. Against these champions they will expect you to immediately try and Charm then after you dash in and it is very easy for them to avoid it with their jump. Saving the Charm for when they use the jump means that they have a very low chance of dodging it. It's all mind games, tricking them into wasting their escape so you have an easy Charm. And like you say, focusing on vision as Ahri is incredibly important because you cannot hit what you cannot see and you need to know where the enemies are before going in for a kill or you could just get locked down and killed. This is an example of how much I ward, now I probably ward too much but you hopefully get the idea of the importance of wards when playing Ahri.
I hope this helps you in some way or another and I apologise if there are spelling/grammar mistakes or repeated information as it is 2:20am and I really need to get to sleep :D Like I said, don't hesitate to ask me any question you want. Literally anything and I will answer it to the best of my ability :)
I can't take back the words I never said
You need to log in before commenting.
Kind of same story with Liss (trying to learn her top), her E sort of gives her some mobility but if she gets CC'd in the middle of it it's game over. I think I'm good at poking with her Q but I got beat up pretty hard by both Vlad and Teemo. Frustrating.
Karma I just play as a supp so I think maybe the thing to learn with her is how to compliment the ADC's best.
Anyway, if anyone that's really good at any of these champs wants to give me some pointers, many thanks. If it matters, I don't play ranked at all (suck too bad lol), mostly blind pick 5v5.