How to get lvl 3 from just 2 jungle camps on...

[quote=H4xDefender]no its the order. you need to do 1 small wraith first to get 3 after red golems[/quote]

[quote=Ekki]That doesn't make sense. iirc the exp from the first clear has been static for a while, and the mobs only level up on respawn. And since doing 25 + 300 is the same as doing 300 + 25 I don't see how the order could change things.[/quote]

[quote=Elusive Ferret]It's irrelevant now anyway with 7.1 :P[/quote]

[quote=Ekki]Way to go Rito, ruining the early jungle cheese (jk it is completely deserved)[/quote]

[quote=Elusive Ferret]Completely agree![/quote]

[quote=H4xDefender]the order changes things because camps start at lvl 2 and you get bonus experience for being lower level than the camp. http://plays.tv/video/5875ee03aefab00749/rip-sweet-cheese heres a link that shows off the level 3 cheese. that being said, pretty sad its getting removed. its a very risky path that usually isnt even worth it, but if you know when to use it without getting punished you get rewarded for it, and i think having those things in the game are good to differentiate good junglers from meh junglers. everyone going to go back to cookie cutter routes again z z[/quote]

[quote=Ekki][quote=H4xDefender]the order changes things because camps start at lvl 2 and you get bonus experience for being lower level than the camp.[/quote]Oh, didn't know (or forgot) they started at level 2. [quote=H4xDefender]its a very risky path that usually isnt even worth it, but if you know when to use it without getting punished you get rewarded for it, and i think having those things in the game are good to differentiate good junglers from meh junglers.[/quote]It's an abuse case that requires too little skill to pull off and you get an extremely early level 3 gank. You get the level 3 at the same time that your enemy cleared his second camp so if he started blue he won't be in position to steal from you nor fight/countergank and if he started red you can counter-steal with a level advantage. The risk is minimal. It doesn't differentiate between good and bad junglers, it only differentiates between people who saw a video with that jungle route and people who didn't.[/quote]

[quote=H4xDefender]how is it an abuse case? was top laners taking small golems or small lizards from red/blue to hit lvl 2 faster an abuse case? was bot lane doing golems at lvl 2 an abuse case? is giving a smiteless leash an abuse case? for most junglers the act of just taking the 1 wraith deals a shit ton of damage to you, (it doesn't in my video because reksai is one of the best at it and syndra uses w on it for me) and if the enemy jungler is smart, he just takes all of your opposite side camps and you're a level behind the whole game with nothing to farm because of new camp spawn timers. i have no idea what junglers you're playing against, but i've gotten extremely punished many times for doing this cheese to the point that weeks before 7.1 changed jungle exp, me and pretty much every other high elo jungler stopped doing this path. it just isnt worth it 90% of the time, but if you use it properly like i did in the clip, it can set a lane up to snowball really early. if someone does this path and you dont take their camps on the other side of the map, you are a bad jungler and you deserve to lose. if you go into the enemy jungle after you lvl 3 gank and kill them, it just means they are absolutely retarded. the normal paths if the enemy jungler started topside on blue is blue gromp wolves or blue wolves red, neither of which should put you in danger to the enemy jungler if he did the early level 3 cheese. in addition, if you cant actually get the level 3 off, you've just wasted a TON of time doing nothing. on the flipside, if the enemy jungler had started bottomside and done a normal path such as red wolves blue, i wouldnt have made it to fight him at lvl 3 vs 2 unless i opted not to gank. at the same time, he could have opted to do a different route himself if he didnt want to risk getting fought at his blue. thats the great thing about jungling, you dont have to do the same route every game if you're afraid of something, or have a different objective in mind when you start playing. exp changes to the jungle were necessary since the role was a bit overtuned, but it removes a lot of the mental aspect of early pathing.[/quote]

[quote=Ekki][quote=H4xDefender]how is it an abuse case? was top laners taking small golems or small lizards from red/blue to hit lvl 2 faster an abuse case? was bot lane doing golems at lvl 2 an abuse case?[/quote]Was this sarcasm? All of these were removed for a reason... EDIT: didn't read the "was bot lane doing golems [u]at lvl 2[/u] an abuse case?" properly, I thought you were talking about the bot lane taking jungle camps at level 1. I don't have enough info about that to know if it's relevant, but the point stands for the other case. [quote=H4xDefender]for most junglers the act of just taking the 1 wraith deals a shit ton of damage to you, (it doesn't in my video because reksai is one of the best at it and syndra uses w on it for me)[/quote]That makes it even worse, since only a subset of junglers would be able to pull it off properly, making it so that you not only need to know the jungle path but also which junglers can use it. [quote=H4xDefender]and if the enemy jungler is smart, he just takes all of your opposite side camps and you're a level behind the whole game with nothing to farm because of new camp spawn timers. i have no idea what junglers you're playing against, but i've gotten extremely punished many times for doing this cheese to the point that weeks before 7.1 changed jungle exp, me and pretty much every other high elo jungler stopped doing this path. it just isnt worth it 90% of the time, but if you use it properly like i did in the clip, it can set a lane up to snowball really early. if someone does this path and you dont take their camps on the other side of the map, you are a bad jungler and you deserve to lose. if you go into the enemy jungle after you lvl 3 gank and kill them, it just means they are absolutely retarded. the normal paths if the enemy jungler started topside on blue is blue gromp wolves or blue wolves red, neither of which should put you in danger to the enemy jungler if he did the early level 3 cheese. in addition, if you cant actually get the level 3 off, you've just wasted a TON of time doing nothing. on the flipside, if the enemy jungler had started bottomside and done a normal path such as red wolves blue, i wouldnt have made it to fight him at lvl 3 vs 2 unless i opted not to gank. at the same time, he could have opted to do a different route himself if he didnt want to risk getting fought at his blue. thats the great thing about jungling, you dont have to do the same route every game if you're afraid of something, or have a different objective in mind when you start playing.[/quote]Since you're the one with the initiative, you can preemptively leave a ward in the enemy blue side to check if they took it, then either only take the route in the most convenient case or make appropriate decisions for each of those. If the enemy jungler starts blue I guess you shouldn't do this, since he could leave only gromp/wolves then go take his red, being in position to steal your jungle without much to steal in theirs. Or maybe you can go back in time to defend your blue if it's a slow jungler and the gank didn't make you lose too much hp (he should lose a big bunch of health if he's stealing your jungle). If he starts red you might be able to go to his jungle with the tranquility that his top laner may be in a worse position than yours (you don't even need a big success, just having him in lower hp than your own laner). My point is that it isn't a big enough risk for the advantage you get from an early level 3 gank when the jungler is expected to be mid-level 2 by that time. Maybe calling it an abuse case was a bit exaggerated, but it's not a good addition to an already overbearing jungle. The risk of a full red side (or blue side) clear might be bigger, but it's what's fair.[/quote]