Am I the only one who thinks 
Ninja Tabi and Randuin's Omen are seriously overpowered right now? Old crits gave true damage that went through these items' damage reductions, but since the crit rework true damage is gone so now tanks hard counter crits when it should be the other way around. Seriously what's even the point of AD carries if they can't kill tanks anymore?
Ninja Tabi and Randuin's Omen are seriously overpowered right now? Old crits gave true damage that went through these items' damage reductions, but since the crit rework true damage is gone so now tanks hard counter crits when it should be the other way around. Seriously what's even the point of AD carries if they can't kill tanks anymore?
Hamstertamer wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks Ninja Tabi and Randuin's Omen are seriously overpowered right now? Old crits gave true damage that went through these items' damage reductions, but since the crit rework true damage is gone so now tanks hard counter crits when it should be the other way around. Seriously what's even the point of AD carries if they can't kill tanks anymore?
Ninja Tabi and Randuin's Omen are seriously overpowered right now? Old crits gave true damage that went through these items' damage reductions, but since the crit rework true damage is gone so now tanks hard counter crits when it should be the other way around. Seriously what's even the point of AD carries if they can't kill tanks anymore?
Maintained wrote:
Does literally nothing against percentage damage reduction? It's not armor that's the problem here, it's the passives.
BOTRK is already a far better counter since on-hit damage is not reduced by those passives, but it's far from enough.
If that were true, crit ADCs would be under-performing. However, seeing as crit ADCs are doing fine while tanks are still underperforming would suggest otherwise.
Maintained wrote:
If that were true, crit ADCs would be under-performing. However, seeing as crit ADCs are doing fine while tanks are still underperforming would suggest otherwise.
Except I'm not talking about the general performance of crit ad carries or tanks. What I'm talking about is the specific interaction between the two. Completely different issue.
I mean, for example Lux deals 0 damage to Mundo, what does this have to do with the individual performance of the two champions?
Crit champions are worse at killing tanks right now than they've ever been. Due to easily traceable changes :
- Buff to tabis passive (10% to 12%)
- Removal of true damage on crits
- Removal of giant slayer passive on
Lord Dominik's Regards (was +20% damage to tanks, pretty sizeable)- Direct buffs to many tanks, often resulting in them being tankier (e.g Sion, Sejuani, Ornn, Nunu rework etc)
- Conqueror true damage halved (mostly impacts Tryndamere, but also others like Yasuo and Draven who stopped running it)
You don't pick Lux to deal with tanks though, whereas AD carries need to be able to do so. If crit AD carries were not able to deal with tanks you'd be seeing way more tanks as a direct answer to countering them. That's not the case though, damage will eventually out-scale defense.
Maintained wrote:
You don't pick Lux to deal with tanks though, whereas AD carries need to be able to do so.
Yes, need to. Whole point is that right now they don't.
Maintained wrote:
If crit AD carries were not able to deal with tanks you'd be seeing way more tanks as a direct answer to countering them. That's not the case though,
So...you've never seen people pick
Malphite, Poppy or Tahm Kench to counter a Tryndamere? With the conqueror rework and removal of true damage on crits these matchups are a free win for the tanks now.Besides, the point is not that tanks are the single best counter to crit champions, the point is tanks are significantly above average at dealing with crits when they should be below average.
Maintained wrote:
damage will eventually out-scale defense.
Let's test that with a matchup shall we? Full build Twitch vs Ornn. Stats below.
Twitch dps before reductions = AD*AS*crit multiplier = 427*1.92*2.25 = 1844
Ornn damage reduction from tabis and randuin passive = (1-0.12)*(1-0.2) = 0.704
Ornn damage reduction from armor, taking LDR armor penetration into account = 100/(100+501*0.65) = 100/425 = 0.235
Twitch dps after reductions = 1844*0.704*0.166 = 305
Time to kill Ornn = 4045 / 305 = 13.2 seconds
Calculation done with Twitch getting bonus AS from his Q and bonus AD from his ult the whole time...which in reality only lasts 5 seconds. Also Twitch has 5 damage items which is unrealistic, in a real game he'll have defensive items.
So Twitch takes 13 WHOLE SECONDS to kill Ornn...supposing Ornn just sits there AFK.
If Twitch doesn't kill himself on the Thornmail before that is.
Twitch is supposed to be one of the biggest hypercarries in the game. So...where's the outscaling?
...well, you are taking ornn, someone that has a natural boost to A/MR and that can enhance items to have even more A/MR, for your example; moreover you are making your counts on a 18/18 fight, something that happens at 40+ minutes, thing that happens pretty rarely. On top of that, being a frontline ornn has to soak the damage from 3 or 4 different sources, so it will never take 13 full seconds to kill him.
About the other example, taking lux vs a Mundo (someone that has a natural MR increase thanks to E and a natural CC reduction thanks to W) is a... masochist move to do, pun totally intended. Moreover this doesn't prove your randuin/tabi point.
Those are pretty weak examples imo, just saying
About the other example, taking lux vs a Mundo (someone that has a natural MR increase thanks to E and a natural CC reduction thanks to W) is a... masochist move to do, pun totally intended. Moreover this doesn't prove your randuin/tabi point.
Those are pretty weak examples imo, just saying
Chromuro wrote:
...well, you are taking ornn, someone that has a natural boost to A/MR and that can enhance items to have even more A/MR
A tank having passive boosts to their defensive stats? You don't say. Clearly only specific to Ornn, and not the entire point of the tank class or anything.
Would you rather I took :
-
Malphite or Rammus (over 1K armor)?-
Cho'Gath or Sion (easily over 6K HP with full build)?-
Shen with his perma shield?I'm willing to bet any of those will survive far longer than Ornn, I just took Ornn because he's easier to calculate since he doesn't rely on temporary boosts.
Chromuro wrote:
for your example; moreover you are making your counts on a 18/18 fight, something that happens at 40+ minutes, thing that happens pretty rarely.
I was replying to a comment about "outtscaling". So obviously I'm making it about full build vs full build.
Besides if you can't get level 18 + full build before 40 minutes you seriously need to improve your farming.
Chromuro wrote:
On top of that, being a frontline ornn has to soak the damage from 3 or 4 different sources, so it will never take 13 full seconds to kill him.
Tanks take basically no damage from burst so the AD carry is still the vast majority of the damage.
If you 5-man focus the tank he's doing exactly what he should and generally you just lose.
Sounds like you're saying that there's nothing wrong because you can still kill tanks 5v1...
Chromuro wrote:
About the other example, taking lux vs a Mundo (someone that has a natural MR increase thanks to E and a natural CC reduction thanks to W) is a... masochist move to do, pun totally intended. Moreover this doesn't prove your randuin/tabi point.
Did you even read the post I was replying to?
He was saying that if tanks are too strong against crits then tanks should be too strong overall. I was just giving the Lux/Mundo example to show that this point makes no sense in general, just because you're too strong against one specific thing doesn't mean you're top tier overall.
You need to log in before commenting.
Hello and welcome to the MOBAFire Patch Summary - 9.8!
This patch includes additional nerfs to
On the ARAM front, Butcher's Bridge has been replaced once again by Howling Abyss, though some experimental changes have stayed following positive player feedback. To top it all off, this patch also includes the release of the skins of the 2018 World Champions, Invictus Gaming!
As always, be sure to check out the full patch notes for details on any changes that interest you.
Balance Changes
Item Changes
The 40% slow from energized effects now decays over 1.5 seconds, up from 1 second.
Rune Changes
Bonus damage to champions below 40% health increased from 7% to 8%.
Other Changes
Upcoming Skins & Chromas
The following skins will be released this patch.
Galaxy Slayer Zed (1820 RP)
K/DA Evelynn Prestige Edition
Invictus Gaming Camille
Invictus Gaming Fiora
Invictus Gaming Irelia
Invictus Gaming Kai'Sa
Invictus Gaming LeBlanc
Invictus Gaming Rakan
Share Your Thoughts!
That's it on our end, time to hear from you guys! How much do you like the Invictus Gaming skins, and will you be looking to pick any of them up? Furthermore, what are your thoughts on the balance changes this patch, and which champions will you be looking to try out in the near future as a result of them?
Let us know in the comments below!