So I've played a few games with Leona this week...

[quote=Nighthawk]On Leona, no. Nothing scales off AD. Just build like a RoA and then full tank, or just full tank. CDR as well.[/quote]

[quote=Urscythe][quote=PsiGuard] Trinity Tank is the best option atm if you ask me. Atmog's might work too, but I've never tried it. [/quote] She can certainly get away with it because of her W, but then you'd also need to cap out CDR quickly if you're planning on relying on it instead of items. The problem I have with it is that even if you build her for tanky damage... there are better heroes that can do that. If you want to go triforce, just pick Blitzcrank - he synergizes with triforce better than most other heroes. If you want to do Atmog's, take Jarvan IV or Garen (I personally prefer Garen because I can run around screaming about JUSTICE!!!!!111!1 and DECMACIAAAAAAA!!!!!!! but J4 is probably a better pick.) It just seems that with anything you want to do as Leona, there are probably going to be better options out there.[/quote]

[quote=Nighthawk]^ She is the only female tank? :D :D :D[/quote]

[quote=ZioSerpe][quote=Urscythe] And I was expecting her to perform a lot worse given how much flak people seem to give her. She actually plays like a tankier, less killy Blitzcrank in a lot of ways (I love her damn ult.) But that's part of the problem I've had with her. I main Blitzcrank. I love him to death. And specifically [i]because[/i] Leona plays so much like him (skillshot gap-closer, autoswing stun, hero-based AOE magic attack) I'm finding it difficult to see why anyone would take Leona over Blitzcrank, and it's even funnier because they're the same price (6300 IP.) See, while Blitzcrank is a bit less tanky (his passive provides less survivability than Leona's W, especially before items come into play), he does much more damage, he disrupts even better than Leona (he has the best displacer in the game, period), and with decent CDR he essentially has a permanent Ghost. More, while Leona is definitely fatter in the earlier stages of the game, once Blitzcrank gets some defensive items and some additional MP, he's difficult to kill (by time I have Hexdrinker, Merc Treads, and Frozen Heart I'm extremely difficult to bring down), still does more damage than Leona can with similar items, and baits even better than Mordekaiser does. I like Leona. She's honestly fun to play, but in her current state I just don't see any reason to pick her over Blitzcrank for filling any of the roles she fills, since Blitzcrank can fill them better than she can. Am I missing something, or is the paladin wannabe just going to have to be content with playing second fiddle? [/quote] You are indeed missing something: 1. Leonas CD are quite lower than blitz's 2. Leona's passive boosts teammates damage, and by a lot [quote=Urscythe] She can certainly get away with it because of her W, but then you'd also need to cap out CDR quickly if you're planning on relying on it instead of items. The problem I have with it is that even if you build her for tanky damage... there are better heroes that can do that. If you want to go triforce, just pick Blitzcrank - he synergizes with triforce better than most other heroes. If you want to do Atmog's, take Jarvan IV or Garen (I personally prefer Garen because I can run around screaming about JUSTICE!!!!!111!1 and DECMACIAAAAAAA!!!!!!! but J4 is probably a better pick.) It just seems that with anything you want to do as Leona, there are probably going to be better options out there. [/quote] Seriusly if you wanna play a tank your role ain't dealing damage, can we learn how to fit a role that ain't considered the hero already? If you're [[Leona]] you're a tank, you're not a goddamn carry, you SAVE your carry, and, in this particular case, you make your carry do way more damage. If you wanna have killing power don't play a tank[/quote]

[quote=Urscythe][quote=ZioSerpe]You are indeed missing something: 1. Leonas CD are quite lower than blitz's 2. Leona's passive boosts teammates damage, and by a lot[/quote] Blitzcrank's cooldowns are shorter than Leona's, by a significant margin. Assuming both have maxed CDR, Blitzcrank's Power Fist (stun) is a 1 second stun on a 3 second cooldown that also does more damage than Leona's stun. Overdrive will have almost 90% uptime; when it ends, it will be available again about one second later. Rocket Grab will have a longer cooldown than Zenith Blade, but it does much more damage and is both faster and longer-ranged, which compensates for it. Blitz's ult will be on a roughly 18 second cooldown with maxed CDR. And while Leona's passive boosts teammate damage significantly (140 magic damage, which is affected by MR, though I don't know if it operates off Leona's magic pen or the teammate's magic pen), Blitzcrank has that "bonus damage" baked in by virtue of simply doing [i]far[/i] more damage than Leona. The only advantage I see Leona having is in being harder to kill in the early game. This [i]might[/i] give her the advantage in, say, Twisted Treeline (where the game is much shorter and so Eclipse will be better for longer.) But you're still dealing with significantly reduced damage output there - I'd probably pick Cho'gath over her. [quote]Seriusly if you wanna play a tank your role ain't dealing damage, can we learn how to fit a role that ain't considered the hero already? If you're [[Leona]] you're a tank, you're not a goddamn carry, you SAVE your carry, and, in this particular case, you make your carry do way more damage. If you wanna have killing power don't play a tank[/quote] And you won't be tanking if you aren't threatening enough to force people to attack you. Leona is not threatening enough to do that. Her CC combo is inferior to damned near every other tank's (Alistar's, for example, makes him a FUCK WE GOTTA KILL THAT DUDE kind of hero), and her damage is as well. She lacks a Taunt, so she can't get away with low damage or CC like Rammus (who has good damage, actually) or Galio can.[/quote]

[quote=ZioSerpe]Seriusly, you just play her bad if you don't get focused[/quote]

[quote=Jvstm]Saw a Leona lock in the other day premade with a Malphite, so I was like "Cool, two tanks..." Well Leona built AD with Bloodrazor, Atmog's, BV and Frozen Hammer and completely pooped on the other team. Of course they fed the living eff out of me (I was playing Evelynn, 20 Occult stacks, Infinity Edge, Trinity, Phantom Dancer. I hurt things) and I'm sure it helped, but she went like 12-4-22 or something like that. Very good player. Not sure how her damage stacked up, though, as I pretty much three shot their Ashe. She did manage to 1v1 a Singed, though, which was pretty cool. She doesn't have a very high base damage, though, so I'd be uneasy about building Trinity tank on her. It really feels like pure tank is the best option for Leona, at least in my experience. My core is Merc Treads, Sunfire, Banshee's and FoN. I rush Glacial Shroud, but don't upgrade it to Frozen Heart until later in the game typically. Also, concerning Urscythe's comment... I'm not sure why you would ever consider Alistar a high priority target. Yes, his CC is annoying, but once blown they have long CDs so really he can just stand there and hope to get hit. Leona is much the same, though her stun CDs are lower and she typically builds like a tank. Most Alistars don't build tanky, and as such are squishy until their ult has been blown. Idk. Alistar is a better support tank, but Leona is hands down a better tank overall.[/quote]

[quote=Urscythe][quote=ZioSerpe] Seriusly, you just play her bad if you don't get focused [/quote] No, it's the other way around. The enemy team is playing bad if they focus Leona. She is very likely the least-threatening member of her team. She is nothing like a Cho'gath, who can Feast your carry for 800 true damage and then spam AOE silences and knockups, or even an atmog's Garen, who can silence people, laugh at towers, and spin to win. Shit, Garen doesn't even have much CC (just a single-target silence on a fairly lengthy cooldown) and he's [i]still[/i] more threatening than Leona.[/quote]

[quote=deathalo44]Leona > Blitzcrank in terms of easiness of playing Blitzcrank > Leona in terms of greater skill Diff between them : SoD - Powerfist > You get a shiny effect for Leona, a higher damage for Blitz. Leona > Blitz when your team attacks more, Blitz > Leona if your team is bursty. Solar Flare - Static Field > Solar Flare does stun + slow as well as ranged. Zaps + Silence zap = wtf Zenith Blade - Rocket grab > Rarely is Rocket Grab worse than Zenith. At least Zenith makes for easier farm :P Eclipse - Overdrive > Totally diff :P[/quote]