Olaf or Udyr (Jungle Evaluation)

[quote=Restrictnine#5232]I dont even need to answer this. Look at my signature.[/quote]

[quote=Doc Deveraux]Not agree with duff. Jax is really item dependent, not Olaf. All what you need on Olaf is wriggle's and boots early game (jungling). He deals true damage, his Undertow doesn't benefit much from attack damage, his Vicious Strikes benefit from health mostly. I don't see how is Olaf one of the most item dependent champs in the game. Basically his items are always: Wriggle - Boots - Warmog's - Atma's. His only problem is Undertow due to facts it is unreliable ganking tool, that's all. But if you give him instant gap-closer he would be the most op champ, so I guess he is balanced now.[/quote]

[quote=Trojan995][quote=Doc Deveraux] Not agree with duff. Jax is really item dependent, not Olaf. All what you need on Olaf is wriggle's and boots early game (jungling). He deals true damage, his Undertow doesn't benefit much from attack damage, his Vicious Strikes benefit from health mostly. I don't see how is Olaf one of the most item dependent champs in the game. Basically his items are always: Wriggle - Boots - Warmog's - Atma's. His only problem is Undertow due to facts it is unreliable ganking tool, that's all. But if you give him instant gap-closer he would be the most op champ, so I guess he is balanced now. [/quote] He is gear dependent, because he's a bruiser that has no gap closer and no defensive steroid, short of his ultimate (that's only a cleanse though). He NEEDS gear to survive the gap he has to run, and the potential kiting that could occur. Udyr doesn't have a gap closer per se, but he has somewhat of one (bear speed), and he has a very strong defensive steroid (lifesteal + shield from turtle). Oh, and Udyr doesn't have a large chunk of his damage DEFLECTING BACK AT HIM. This is basically why Olaf's early game is pretty mediocre (well, until the buffs, that is), and why he needs items. Without items people kill him and he kills himself.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]Undertow is a really GOOD ganking tool FIRST of all. Don't be the sheep who repeats what people tell you. SECONDLY, Olaf without items is a JOKE. He's a squishy with only a slow. THE ONLY thing his ultimate does is allow him to continue to auto attack and use skills. That kind of ult means you need gear to use it well, if you have no tankiness you're just gonna die. If you have no damage, you can only use E (Which is fine for most of the game but end game it's nice to hurt when you right click too.) He scales INCREDIBLY well with ALL bruiser gear, HP, damage, resistances, ANYTHING. It's clear you don't have much experience with Olaf if you think for a second he's gear independent. I have played probably 200-250 games with Olaf. and I'd say a good 50+ were ranked. It's true, Wriggle's is a one hit wonder for Olaf. But then you need Warmogg's. Once you have Warmogg's, you're sitting pretty comfy. But you still need resistances and damage and when you have all of that you're a monster. In the jungle, it takes a loooong time to get Warmogg's finished, and that sets back the rest of the goodies you need to be a terror. Your enemies outscale you in turn, and you spend the whole game playing catch up. When all you have in a champion is damage, you need to outscale your opponents to be effective. When you have natural tankiness, you don't. Udyr has the tankiness, so it's okay if he is a level or two behind the solo lanes. He still does his job, the slight lack of gold doesn't affect him. See what I'm saying?[/quote]

[quote=React]Leme rephrase this... Tiger Udyr against Olaf in a battle of solo top control, jungle, and effectiveness in high elo.[/quote]

[quote=Restrictnine#5232][quote=React] Leme rephrase this... Tiger Udyr against Olaf in a battle of solo top control, jungle, and effectiveness in high elo. [/quote] In order: Olaf, Udyr, Depends on who has a better game. In short, they are pretty much equal, and PLAY similarly come late game. The only real difference is their early games. EDIT: Phoenix jungle is FAR stronger than Tiger Udyr. Might as well lane if ur gonna tiger udyr. Trust me. Im a doctor.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]I agree phoenix jungle is just absurdly strong. Absolutely no reason to jungle Tiger unless you really just don't understand phoenix Udyr. Olaf solo top blows Udyr up, he's better all game as a solo. Udyr as a jungle blows Olaf up, he's better all game as a jungle. They are comparable I suppose late but I don't really see it. Udyr's bear stance provides CC mid fight that Olaf sort of lacks, and Olaf hits really hard per right click deep end game for how tanky he can be. Anyway, TL;DR, both champs can do both roles. But, if you can play both of them well, jungle Udyr, and lane Olaf, it just works out better that way ^_^[/quote]

[quote=React]Thing is I have ArP runes... I hear without AS runes phoenix udyr is bleh...[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]still faster than tiger~ Tiger stance activate does magic damage anyway. Mostly AD marks and such tend to be the better pick I think for Tiger.[/quote]

[quote=Metalsonic]Udyr is still the fastest jungler and is really great at stealing buffs unlike olaf. It just has to do with udyr his kit I guess that makes him really great at stealing buffs. Can't really bother with an in-depth reply why udyr is better then olaf in jungle.[/quote]