Varus skill order...

[quote=Jpikachu1999]And no ones even mentions [[Taric]]. So sad. @tehAsian That's an interesting point, but what would you have in like 80% of your games? The ability to nuke, or the ability to poke with auto attacks and then super nuke with your other abilities?[/quote]

[quote=tehAsian]I don't actually play AD Carries extensively, so I don't have actual estimates. Most supports nowadays I've noticed don't really use heals (not the summoner spell). [[taric]] is underplayed and [[sona]] was apparently nerfed to the ground, so the only two I can think of right off the bat is [[soraka]] and [[alistar]], out of: [[leona]], [[nautilus]], [[shen]], [[blitzcrank]], [[lulu]], [[karma]], [[kayle]], [[sona]], [[taric]], [[soraka]], [[alistar]], [[lux]], [[maokai]], [[nidalee]], [[morgana]], [[nunu]], [[orianna]], [[yorick]][[zilean]]. 19 Supports (might be more), 2 of them ([[soraka]] and [[alistar]]) which are commonly played that have heals. That's a low 10%. Definitely not that common. So assuming the other laners, let's take [[miss fortune]] and [[leona]] (one of my recent games) as enemies. I know MF would be able to kite me easily with [[make it rain]] and [[strut]], and [[leona]]'s passive would just destroy me in combination, so using Q to harass instead of W to run a risk of massive damage from retaliation is better. In this situation, I'd take the 'safer' nuke. Also, the 'super nuke' isn't as high as you'd think. Taking [[corki]] as an example, let's say he has 2 [[doran's blade]]s at level 9 (his only health items). He has 375 + 82(9) health at level 9, which is 1113 Health. Taking Resists out of the equation, [[blighted quiver]] would take out 15% of it from the bonus damage portion. .15 * 1113 = 166.95, or 167 Bonus magic damage, with 26 * 3 = 78 damage from procs. This translates to about 245 total bonus magic damage. [[piercing arrow]] will do 65 + 160% of your total AD at full charge, 43 + 100% just firing it. At level 9, let's say you have 2x [[doran's blade]]s, [[boots of speed]], and a [[b. f. sword]], roughly 3000 gold. [[varus]] has 46 + 27 = 73 AD at level 9. With the above items, you will have 73 + 20 + 45 = 138 AD. Over those 3 attacks and the bonus proc, you will do 245 + 138 + 43 = 426 total damage, up to 509 damage with a fully charged Q (rounded up). What if we take [[piercing arrow]] first? Taking into consideration the same items against the same [[corki]], you would do 6% of his health + 14 * 3 magic damage, which comes to about 109 magic damage. [[piercing arrow]] will do 143 + 100% of AD, which is 143 + 138 = 281 damage, up to 215 + 160% of AD, which is 215 + 221 = 436 damage. So if you use the Q to JUST proc 3 stacks on W... You do 426 Damage with [[blighted quiver]] first as opposed to 390 with [[piercing arrow]] first. But if you use the fully charged Q, you're comparing 436 + 109 = 545 damage with [[piercing arrow]] first, as compared to 509 with [[blighted quiver]] first. But then again, it depends if the other laners are building Mres or Armor, so it's actually impossible to tell what I'd have in 80% of my games :P[/quote]

[quote=Keondre]Ohh my god tehasian. Did it take an hour to type that?[/quote]

[quote=tehAsian]According to the clock on my computer... no. I was distracted a lot too, and my internet sucks so more like 30 minutes?[/quote]

[quote=CasterMaster][quote=tehAsian] I don't actually play AD Carries extensively, so I don't have actual estimates. Most supports nowadays I've noticed don't really use heals (not the summoner spell). [[taric]] is underplayed and [[sona]] was apparently nerfed to the ground, so the only two I can think of right off the bat is [[soraka]] and [[alistar]], out of: [[leona]], [[nautilus]], [[shen]], [[blitzcrank]], [[lulu]], [[karma]], [[kayle]], [[sona]], [[taric]], [[soraka]], [[alistar]], [[lux]], [[maokai]], [[nidalee]], [[morgana]], [[nunu]], [[orianna]], [[yorick]][[zilean]]. 19 Supports (might be more), 2 of them ([[soraka]] and [[alistar]]) which are commonly played that have heals. That's a low 10%. Definitely not that common. So assuming the other laners, let's take [[miss fortune]] and [[leona]] (one of my recent games) as enemies. I know MF would be able to kite me easily with [[make it rain]] and [[strut]], and [[leona]]'s passive would just destroy me in combination, so using Q to harass instead of W to run a risk of massive damage from retaliation is better. In this situation, I'd take the 'safer' nuke. Also, the 'super nuke' isn't as high as you'd think. Taking [[corki]] as an example, let's say he has 2 [[doran's blade]]s at level 9 (his only health items). He has 375 + 82(9) health at level 9, which is 1113 Health. Taking Resists out of the equation, [[blighted quiver]] would take out 15% of it from the bonus damage portion. .15 * 1113 = 166.95, or 167 Bonus magic damage, with 26 * 3 = 78 damage from procs. This translates to about 245 total bonus magic damage. [[piercing arrow]] will do 65 + 160% of your total AD at full charge, 43 + 100% just firing it. At level 9, let's say you have 2x [[doran's blade]]s, [[boots of speed]], and a [[b. f. sword]], roughly 3000 gold. [[varus]] has 46 + 27 = 73 AD at level 9. With the above items, you will have 73 + 20 + 45 = 138 AD. Over those 3 attacks and the bonus proc, you will do 245 + 138 + 43 = 426 total damage, up to 509 damage with a fully charged Q (rounded up). What if we take [[piercing arrow]] first? Taking into consideration the same items against the same [[corki]], you would do 6% of his health + 14 * 3 magic damage, which comes to about 109 magic damage. [[piercing arrow]] will do 143 + 100% of AD, which is 143 + 138 = 281 damage, up to 215 + 160% of AD, which is 215 + 221 = 436 damage. So if you use the Q to JUST proc 3 stacks on W... You do 426 Damage with [[blighted quiver]] first as opposed to 390 with [[piercing arrow]] first. But if you use the fully charged Q, you're comparing 436 + 109 = 545 damage with [[piercing arrow]] first, as compared to 509 with [[blighted quiver]] first. But then again, it depends if the other laners are building Mres or Armor, so it's actually impossible to tell what I'd have in 80% of my games :P [/quote] [color=#ff0080]+rep[/color][/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]Yes well I should point out that the arrow at rank 5 is 215 + 1.6 ad ratio, that ad ratio is insane ^_^ And the range is so long ^_^[/quote]

[quote=Jpikachu1999]Well. Mathed. On topic though, that's a very good point. I dunno, I like [[Blighted Quiver]] for better last hitting and auto attack pokes. Apparently [[Taric]] is played more on EU (I don't know, I don't play on EU), but he's pretty solid. That armor aura + super burst + heal is really strong. Not to mention he makes a good bodyguard at early levels and has a stun.[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy][[karma]] and [[nidalee]] have a heal. And lately I have seen some of them. [[kayle]] aswell.[/quote]

[quote=tehAsian]Compared to [[soraka]] or [[alistar]], they're rarely played. I see more AP [[karma]]s and Bruiser [[nidalee]]s than full support. [[kayle]] seemed untouched after that buff o_o dunno why. All her numbers increased, and that was it.[/quote]

[quote=Jpikachu1999][[Karma]] is underplayed, and sort of a niche character in the current meta. [[Nidalee]] generally makes a better top lane, either bruiser, or AP. [[Kayle]] is also unplayed, and usually goes top when she is.[/quote]