Garen, the one left behind.

[quote=NicknameMy][[Garen]] is actually a champ in league of legends, which was left behind by riot games. They created 1 champ which has the same purpose as him but does nearly everything better, how hardcore is that? If Garen wants to be viable again, he has to be buffed onto the same level like [[Darius]]. Which parts would be the most important to this? I think I already mentioned that armor counters [[garen]] pretty hardcore. It is his main problem. [[Darius]] doesn't have this problem because he deals high mixed damaage with the passive and his spells. Aswell, he has passive % Armorpeneration, which is basically the counter to armor stackers. So if [[garen]] wants to be viable again, he needs [color=#ff0000]% Armorpenetration/Reduction[/color]. The second part is that the ult of [[Darius]] is way more reliable than the one of [[Garen]] because it deals true dmg instead of magic, means it can't be countered by abilities or resistances. [[garen]]'s ult most of the time fail because the enemy just stacks tons of mr or have an ability like [[Poppy]]'s passive. So if [[garen]] wants to be viable again, he needs [color=#ff0000]true dmg on his ulti[/color]. Of course, the damage would be needed to lowered a bit, but reliable dmg is way more important than raw dmg (see AS-Cho vs AP-Cho). Okay, [[darius]] has one downside to [[garen]], he has to use mana, [[garen]] doesn't have to. But for that, the cooldowns of [[garen]] are higher than the ones of [[darius]], so this is balanced. [[garen]] has 1 sustain tool that allows him to stay longer in the lane but for that [[darius]] has more dmg. This is balanced aswell. [[Darius]] has more cc than [[garen]] but [[garen]]'s cc is better, balanced aswell. Both have forms of gap closers, while the gap closer of [[darius]] is more reliable, [[garen]] can use his also to escape. This seems to be balanced aswell. So, there are only 2 mayor points which need to be changed to make [[garen]] give a comeback in the game. Riot, just let him go. BTW: Every buff needs also a tweak in a different location, to lower the damage of [[garen]] at earlygame, simply change the base AD to 53(lvl 0)+3.5 per level. With this change, earlygame damage would be decreased and after lvl 10 the damage would be increased. A nice way to balance out [[garen]] more.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]Garen is garbage, Darius is twenty times better in every way.[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy][quote=DuffTime] Garen is garbage, Darius is twenty times better in every way. [/quote] Yes, and how to change that?[/quote]

[quote=tehAsian]IMO give [[garen]] Armor Pen on his W.[/quote]

[quote=Yukimaru]So u compare Garen and Darius because there Ult's are kinda similiar in their Mechanics? Wow...just wow...that's just downright Darius. And Garen played right still pwns the early-game hard, and that is his job, hes like Teemo in that regard's. So i think he's fine. Oh and i rather think Darius needs a slight nerf on his passive.[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy]It is not only the similar Ult, it is aswell the similar weaknesses, the similar playstyles and the similar builds.[/quote]

[quote=drunken0elf]Eh. I still like my Garen over Darius. Garen is an early game monster and will always be. Darius is always banned, and Garen is not. A banned champ is a useless champ. I like Garen over Darius for various reasons. 1) Garen is a fast mofo. Boots of movement speed lvl 3, his q and his spin to win = amazing harass that can't be countered. 2) His w = tank everything all day long. 3) His ult simply demolishes tanks with high armor or health. 4) I find Garen snowballs out of control with only minions. Doesn't need kills to snowball out of control. 5) Can easily and swiftly gank a lane before an mia is called resulting in a very easy kill. 6) doesn't get focused cause he's a tank while Darius gets focused a lot. Even a pure dps garen won't get focused. Garen is much easier to play then Darius, therefor it's easier to get fed as Garen. 7) I personally find Garen much more tanky then darius. Darius has to go full bruiser to live long, while a dps garen just tanks what he pleases and makes a tactical spin-retreat out of danger. Garen does have the serious con that he doesn't scale well into late game which I honestly could care less. If I'm fed I scalew ell into late game. If i'm not fed I just build into an unkillable tank wich brings a lot of good to the team. A silence for the ap carry, an ult to 1 shot the half hp tank and a spin for some constant aoe damage.[/quote]

[quote=Somalie]Yeah, let Garen in peace.[/quote]

[quote=Xenotechie]In my opinion, [[Garen]] has a case of old champion syndrome. This is most apparent in his finishing ability, as most other finishing abilities now deal true damage. However, that is not all. His abilities seem to make him a tanky DPS with the emphasis on tanky, but the problem is that no one will willingly focus a tanky [[Garen]], and, well, he just doesn't deal enough damage to stay viable. Now, people mostly build him caster AD via [[Judgment]] transitioning into autoattack AD. Riot could either ignore that and tweak him to be able to either deal damage or be a bigger threat so he gets focused, or embrace that concept and tweak him accordingly.[/quote]

[quote=Yukimaru][quote=NicknameMy] It is not only the similar Ult, it is aswell the similar weaknesses, the similar playstyles and the similar builds. [/quote] ofc there are more smiliarity's, but that doesnt make them excatly the same, u dont go ahead and do this with Corki&Ezreal either.[/quote]