Dear young earth creationists:

[quote=Searz][quote=throatslasher] Once a religious person starts asking serious questions while actually looking for answers, they tend to cease being religious.[/quote] +1[/quote]

[quote=ShiftyCake][quote=Canoas] @ShittyCake Are you serious? Science is not a religion and never was. Science is not proven to be fact, it's the way we logically test and explain the universe we live in. It is definitely more worthy than religion, only a buffoon would claim otherwise. No sense of hope? What does religion have to offer then? Infinite torture and pain or infinite boredom? Sorry, that's not hope, that's only despair. And how is not believing in god a sign of little understanding of this world? Isn't that the other way around? It's religious people that have NO FUCKING IDEA how the world works. Don't talk about yourself as if you've transcended thanks to religion and now have some deep insight about the universe. You don't. You're an idiot, you live in a fantasy world where God does everything for you. Oh, your mother (or any other family member, including yourself) survived an operation, let's thank God for that! Fck science, it can't even give people hope that they'll survive any of the otherwise deadly viruses and bacteria that surround us daily! How useless is that? It certainly doesn't deserve to exist more than our awesome imaginary friends who commit genocides for fun, tell us to kill any homos we see and try to spread aids around the globe. Those guys are awesome, everyone should worship them. Just pretend you never made that comment? No. That's an insult to any living creature, even my cat is dumbfounded and he's a fcking cat. [/quote] *sigh* You know, people like you are what's wrong with this world. You live self-centered, act self-centered, stuff your ideas down peoples throats and then refuse to admit that you were ever wrong. I'm an atheist. Do not assume on false pre-tense that I am religious, simply because I hypothesis such and don't act like an ass to religion. Science had a beginning, and in that beginnning their must've been an idea. A thought that the world doesn't just happen, and there is some kind of tangible force behind it. In that beginning, it was a religion just as any other because their was no fact behind it. [quote=throatslasher] Expand on that, Phy. Science = inquisitive Religion = not inquisitive Once a religious person starts asking serious questions while actually looking for answers, they tend to cease being religious. [/quote] thank you, this is correct. This is how science became science, and differed from religions. And since you've failed to understand anything I said, I can udnerstand how you did not understand this. I [u]hypothesized[/u] that science can be [u]considered[/u] less then religion because it provides no basis of "hope". Let me explain what I mean by hope. Every being at some time in their life, feels insiginificant. This is related to the fact that you are actually insignificant, and that's why most people seek out to be part of something bigger. This generally leads them to religion, since its based on the fact that their is omsething greater then themselves. It gives people hope, a reason to live, to strive towards for the future. It gives people a chance to live. And yes, religion has been used the wrong way quite a lot in such things as terrorist acts or religious wars. [u]This is not religion itself[/u], it is human weaknesses and extremes that have created these things. You cannot directly blame something that provides such hope to this world. and holy SHIT you are an idiot. I was joking about pretending that comment was never made, cause it was a reaction to something that wasn't there in the first place. An insult to any living creature? Do you live in a hole, your cat doesn't give a flying fuck what I said on this forum. Either does 99% of the world's population. Let me correct your statement, to this is an insult to [u]you[/u]. Do not lower everyone else to your standards. [quote=Canoas] [quote=ntb213]Also, pretty much telling them "Fuck you guys! Religion is worthless!" doesn't help at all. It gives a bad rep for other non religious people. Besides, why take away what helps them sleep at night? If they are more happy believing then let them believe.[/quote] Maybe it doesn't help them, but it helps me. I feel happier when I bash ungrateful people who bash science. Otherwise I don't really care as long if religious people keep it to themselves. The moment someone tries to throw it at my face or, like shittycake, bash science in favour of religion then I'll gladly insult them. [/quote] Do you even read what you write? Do you not realize your own stupidity? First off, my name is shiftycake, and I don't care whether you know or not. ungrateful people? Religious people aren't ungrateful, they just believe in something different. The fact that you can't see this, and respect their opinions, shows how ungrateful [u]you[/u] are ...Alright, I'm a bit calmer now. [quote=Pheyniex] [quote=ShiftyCake] [quote=throatslasher] Cut it out. You're embarssing me as an American, and as a human being. Who do you think has it right, the illiterate desert nomads that wandered around and died at age 20, or the brilliant scientists of today with infinite resources at their fingertips? All your nomads did was suck and die and scribble some stuff about a sky wizard. But, you have modern science to thank for: average lifespan tripled vaccines electricity computers internet modern farming techniques (most important) dippin' dots video games clean water modern medicine Stop using science when it's convenient, and then spit on it and stab it in the back when it conflicts with your views. the awesome thing about science is that it's true if you believe in it or not. If you want to test this, convince yourself that the theory of gravity is 'just a theory' and then jump out a window. Or call germ theory 'hogwash' and drink an ebola sample. If you want to live in the stone age, put on some deerskin clothes and wander into your nearest forest. Or, you can join us in the 21st century and stop taking your book so literally. [/quote] I'm going to ignore everything, and only talk about this first post (since most of the rest is just useless crap). Do you know what science is? [b]It's another religion proven to be fact. Thus, because it is fact, it moved away from being a religion and became science.[/b] Doesn't matter whether they named it a religion to begin with, it all started with theorisation. Consider it this way, people once considered the world flat. How did they find out it was round? By going around the world. Science is the religion of "doing things" as such. or was, since once it becomes tangible and fact it could no longer be called a religion. I'm just spouting theorised nonsense here, so I'll get to my point. [i]Science is no more worthy in this world then religion is.[/i] [u]In fact, it can be argued to be less worthy since it provides no sense of "hope" as a religion does[/u]. [b]Yet that is meaningless, since I consider all things equal[/b]. Look, what I am trying to say is that your dimwitted and society-focused view is a sign of how little knowledge and understanding you have of this world. To put it in a tangible way, your still "chained" as such to society and have no sense of existence outside of it. You don't understand anything but it, you don't know anything but it, and you don't speak of anything but it. Therefore, no matter how much you spout your nonsense at people, it'll just be a recurring system of nonsense. It'll be rejected, for this view stems directly from the society you live in. This means, it is not your view, but a view of your whole system. It is not your single specialized view, but a view of multiple people. It is nothing new, and so it will be rejected as something old. Simply put, your argument is meaningless and do not attempt to pretend to understand why such things as religion exist. [/quote] bold-> dafuq? italic-> open for discussion. underlined -> distorted logic op science proposed a method to explain observable phenomena. i'm an atheist. i find there is a reason for things to happen, however random it may seem. muli-entity existence imposes chaoic behavior in what we observe. i rejeced a superior existence nt because of belief but because i noticed there is no need for one. this was all from my intuition, so i accept it has no credit to you. also, there are arguments defending that the creation of the universe does not require anthing else besides what we can state as fact. (u can check StephenHawking's last works for it). religion surged as a clear, immediate explanaion for what could not be explained with the knowledge avaiable. many religions defined one society but many shared traits, bc people traveled since they could. it could be obsolete but there will always be people expecting something more. however helpless and uninteligent such people may seem to me, i try not to disrespect them. i just supprt people should learn more, be curious about mankind and what we alread know. mankind, in general, has no idea what makes them behave the wa the do, so propper educaion is needed (modern educaion barel meets such goal, even in the "developed" world) [/quote] Well, I have nothing wrong to say to this. It is true that quite a few religious people are insanely stupid and just stuff their ideals down your throat. [quote=throatslasher] Science has nothing to do with religion. Back to what Phy said... Religious people are intellectually stunted. They reject knowledge, because all naturalistic and scientific knowledge directly contradicts their religion. Religions says there is heaven and hell. Scientists say, where is it? Where should we point our telescopes? Religion says there is a soul. Scientists ask what part of the body it's stored in, what it looks like, etc. Religion says god created the earth thousands of years ago. Scientists beg to differ. Religion says lots of crap, and scientists/smart people raise an eyebrow in disbelief. [/quote] Science says the universe was created by the Big Bang Theory, Religion says it was created by God. One believes in The world being created out of something, the other believes in the world being crated out of nothing. Yet if you actually stopped to think about it, how the fuck did the matter that crated the universe get their to being with? Think about it as long as you can, but you'll never be able to explain it with science or religion. For religion is the same, where did God come from? Some things are beyond human comprehension, and should not be sought after. [quote=Acid Reigns] Something I've kinda always wondered. o: How come when 'bad people' die, they go to 'hell' and 'satan tortures them'? I mean, apparently god, and satan are mortal enemies right? So you break gods rules, and upset him, and get on his bad side, his ENEMY punishes you. I've always been kinda curious as to how this makes sense to anyone. Wouldn't you think Satan would reward you in some way? Additionally, what the hell does he GET from torturing dead people? Absolutely nothing! Also, if your 'soul' leaves your body and goes on to hell alone, this may blow your mind, but YOU WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO FEEL PAIN, YOU NEED NERVES FOR THAT! To everyone who says 'why hate religion so much? It doesn't harm anyone' YES IT DOES! Do you realize how many people have died, how many wars have been started as a DIRECT RESULT of religion? Religion NEEDS to die, that is a simple fact. [/quote] Wars, peoples deaths are directly related to human weaknesses as I've said before. Take away religion, and I can assure you that it won't decrease. If anything, it will increase for the simple fact that you took away people belief of a higher existence. half the morals in the world just up and dissapeared cause you said "hang on, fucking people up won't send you to hell". As long as more then one human exists on this planet, conflict arise and through that conflict wars and battles will come forth. It is a fact of life that must be accepted, for in heart, we are violent beasts.[/quote]

[quote=DillButt64]Shifty in your last paragraph you said that if you took out religion then half of the morals would be taken away, THAT IS COMPLETELY WRONG, just because everyone agrees there is no such thing as hell it doesnt mean its going to give people more incentive to murder people or cause wars There is this things humans have called a conscience, you know that thing that makes you think "wait if i stab that guy something bad might happen i shouldnt do this" but i do agree that war will happen no matter what[/quote]

[quote=DillButt64][quote=Acid Reigns] Something I've kinda always wondered. o: How come when 'bad people' die, they go to 'hell' and 'satan tortures them'? I mean, apparently god, and satan are mortal enemies right? So you break gods rules, and upset him, and get on his bad side, his ENEMY punishes you. I've always been kinda curious as to how this makes sense to anyone. Wouldn't you think Satan would reward you in some way? Additionally, what the hell does he GET from torturing dead people? Absolutely nothing! Also, if your 'soul' leaves your body and goes on to hell alone, this may blow your mind, but YOU WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO FEEL PAIN, YOU NEED NERVES FOR THAT! To everyone who says 'why hate religion so much? It doesn't harm anyone' YES IT DOES! Do you realize how many people have died, how many wars have been started as a DIRECT RESULT of religion? Religion NEEDS to die, that is a simple fact. [/quote] if satan punishes bad people does that make him a good person?[/quote]

[quote=Phil Collins]Well, being a Christian in my younger years, I believe I can explain why it was said that it is Satan who punishes the humans and not God himself. The bible states that God is a loving God, he cannot go against his own will, in that case, torturing (or killing for that matter) a human being. Also, the bible tells people to "Forgive your enemies". Since Satan and God are polar opposites in everything, God cannot go against the bible, so God must forgive Satan, and he would leave Satan to his own devices and leave the torturing of non-believers for Satan to handle. Also, Satan hates everything about God. This includes humans because God created humans. Because of that, Satan will do anything to deceive humans into sinning until they die, and dragging them into hell where they will suffer eternally. This also explains the Adam and Eve story. During the ending of that story, because of the reasons mentioned above, God did not kill Adam and Eve for sinning, but simply banished them from the garden of Eden. But pretty much all religions tell believers that non-believers will die a painful death and that religions that aren't part of themselves are fake, so it's all bullshit.[/quote]

[quote=ShiftyCake][quote=DillButt64] Shifty in your last paragraph you said that if you took out religion then half of the morals would be taken away, THAT IS COMPLETELY WRONG, just because everyone agrees there is no such thing as hell it doesnt mean its going to give people more incentive to murder people or cause wars There is this things humans have called a conscience, you know that thing that makes you think "wait if i stab that guy something bad might happen i shouldnt do this" but i do agree that war will happen no matter what [/quote] sadly, I am not. A consciousness requires the will to do right in order to work, if their is no incentive to do right then many people will discard their consciousness without a care. I was just stating an example when I said hell, people's general belief in a higher being and that this being will reject you if you do not do right or do not regret your wrong has sustained world-wide morals for a long time. For in this ever-consuming world, humans have become a bundle of greed. If they do not see a benefit in something, it will be discarded. So too, does the same affect apply to morals. Of course, not everyone will discard something like morals so easily. I'm only considering that many people will. [quote=DillButt64] [quote=Acid Reigns] Something I've kinda always wondered. o: How come when 'bad people' die, they go to 'hell' and 'satan tortures them'? I mean, apparently god, and satan are mortal enemies right? So you break gods rules, and upset him, and get on his bad side, his ENEMY punishes you. I've always been kinda curious as to how this makes sense to anyone. Wouldn't you think Satan would reward you in some way? Additionally, what the hell does he GET from torturing dead people? Absolutely nothing! Also, if your 'soul' leaves your body and goes on to hell alone, this may blow your mind, but YOU WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO FEEL PAIN, YOU NEED NERVES FOR THAT! To everyone who says 'why hate religion so much? It doesn't harm anyone' YES IT DOES! Do you realize how many people have died, how many wars have been started as a DIRECT RESULT of religion? Religion NEEDS to die, that is a simple fact. [/quote] if satan punishes bad people does that make him a good person? [/quote] In all the religions, "Satan" or really "Death God" has been the only one referenced throughout nearly all religions. Their are many arguments against the Death God being a bad guy, which I quite agree with. He is persecuted because he is the God of Death, yet really he's dealing with all the problems the so called "Morally right" Gods don't which to touch. In essence, I believe hes more worthy of the title God then any other God ever thought up. [quote=Phil Collins] Well, being a Christian in my younger years, I believe I can explain why it was said that it is Satan who punishes the humans and not God himself. The bible states that God is a loving God, he cannot go against his own will, in that case, torturing (or killing for that matter) a human being. Also, the bible tells people to "Forgive your enemies". Since Satan and God are polar opposites in everything, God cannot go against the bible, so God must forgive Satan, and he would leave Satan to his own devices and leave the torturing of non-believers for Satan to handle. Also, Satan hates everything about God. This includes humans because God created humans. Because of that, Satan will do anything to deceive humans into sinning until they die, and dragging them into hell where they will suffer eternally. This also explains the Adam and Eve story. During the ending of that story, because of the reasons mentioned above, God did not kill Adam and Eve for sinning, but simply banished them from the garden of Eden. But pretty much all religions tell believers that non-believers will die a painful death and that religions that aren't part of themselves are fake, so it's all bullshit. [/quote] Yes, God has always been portrayed as Loving. Yet going back into the Bible and whatnot, you can see that its not entirely true. As with all religions, contained in their book are mentions of of violence and acts that cause suffering and persecution of non-believers which shows a preference over people who do not believe in God. Let me get to my end before you jump to conclusions about what I'm saying btw. It's everywhere, contradictions to previous statements within the Bible. Why? because God did not create the Bible, man did. That is why you cannot take everything to heart, and must remember that it is all opinionated. Not all is fact, and not all isn't. I do not believe that Christianity's God is loving, but just. Something entirely different, with different consequences and actions. Well, he is Loving in an essence but he doesn't base his decisions on love. It's more of a mixture of love and justice. That is why when you have sinned, if you hold true regret and repent then you are free of that sin. That shows a mixture of love, by God forgiving, and justice, by God forgetting. if that makes sense :3[/quote]

[quote=DillButt64]so yer saying if there is no hell people are just going to run around murdering others? no thats incorrect there are many incentives to not murder someone that arnt hell ill make a list 1. Going to jail 2. Mental trauma 3. Being shunned by the community 4. Seeing others in despair 5. Not being trusted there are a lot more things other than "YER GONNA GO TO HELL IF YOU DO THAT" that stop people from doing things[/quote]

[quote=ShiftyCake][quote=DillButt64] so yer saying if there is no hell people are just going to run around murdering others? no thats incorrect there are many incentives to not murder someone that arnt hell ill make a list 1. Going to jail 2. Mental trauma 3. Being shunned by the community 4. Seeing others in despair 5. Not being trusted there are a lot more things other than "YER GONNA GO TO HELL IF YOU DO THAT" that stop people from doing things [/quote] I misinterpreted what you said :/ I'm not saying people will go around killing others, I'm saying that people's morals will be reduced/destroyed. There is a difference, morals are something your not willing to do because [u]you[/u] believe its wrong; not because your shunned by it or other various reasons. That's why when your moral compass is wrong, you do the wrong things thinking they're right. When people don't have to worry about what their actions will do in the next world, they don't care if they act morally wrong in this one. This is such things as stealing from people, they don't care because they have lost their morals. Killing, on the other hand, holds heavy repercussions and is very hard to get away with.[/quote]

[quote=Canoas]@Shittycake Are you serious? Again? Where the hell are you getting all that bullshit from? Science didn't have a begin. Science simply exists. If a caveman notices that hitting someone with a club causes pain then that's science. If he notices that fire is hot and will burn you then that's science as well. Science began even before we existed, religion came after. My cat knows that sunlight warms him, yet he has no fcking clue what a god is. Religion does not give anyone a reason or a chance to live. All it does is allow people to delude themselves and not be treated as delusional. And how can you say that acts of terrorism and war isn't religion itself? God himself would commit genocide without a second thought. He flooded the whole earth killing every living creature that was not on that boat. He killed every first born son of Egypt when he could have just opened the way for Moses. War and terrorism pale in comparison to what their imaginary God has done. Religion people ARE ungrateful. How many times do they claim that god saved their lives when it was science all along? How many times do they claim science is evil while using technology to spread that claim? Yes, they believe in something else, which is what makes them ungrateful. If I help a friend with something and he doesn't thank me because he believes it was god then I won't help him any more. Too bad science can't do the same. "Oh, you're a creationist? I'm sorry, but we can't give you medicine that was created thanks to the understanding of evolution." [quote]Science says the universe was created by the Big Bang Theory, Religion says it was created by God. One believes in The world being created out of something, the other believes in the world being crated out of nothing. Yet if you actually stopped to think about it, how the fuck did the matter that crated the universe get their to being with? Think about it as long as you can, but you'll never be able to explain it with science or religion. For religion is the same, where did God come from? Some things are beyond human comprehension, and should not be sought after.[/quote]And this proves you're an idiot. Science doesn't have an answer to everything.. YET. There was a time we didn't know how the earth and sun came to exist, so people claimed it was god. Then we understood that but still didn't know how we came to exist, so people claimed it was god. Now we know plenty of things, but we still don't know how the singularity that caused the big bang came to existence. Are you really going to keep claiming it was god? So to you god is what we don't know yet? Sorry, but the god of the gaps arguments doesn't stick. "If that's how you want to invoke your evidence for god, then god is an ever-receding pocket of scientific ignorance." You are pretty much everything that's wrong with the world. You just proved that your nature is inherently evil. I don't need an incentive to do good. When I give money to charity I know I'll never get anything in return, for example. If you need an incentive to do good then it also means with the same incentive you would do evil. If God said we need to kill 30 babies to go to heaven then freaks like you would be the first to get a hammer and start a killing spree. Religion is amoral. Our world's greatest philanthropists are not even christian. Why? Because christians don't care. They don't need to donate 90% of their wealth to go to heaven, so they don't. If a mass de-conversion was possible then the world would be a better place. It has been proven that empathy and respect and inherent to mammals. Even monkeys feel empathy for one another, the fact that you don't makes you a psychopath.[/quote]

[quote=throatslasher]ROFL I was just about to link that paragraph "Science says the [u]universe was created by the Big Bang Theory[/u], Religion says it was created by God. One believes in The world being created out of something, the other believes in the world being crated out of nothing. Yet if you actually stopped to think about it, how the fuck did the matter that crated the universe get their to being with? Think about it as long as you can, but you'll never be able to explain it with science or religion. For religion is the same, where did God come from? Some things are beyond human comprehension, and should not be sought after." This paragraph proves you're scientifically illiterate. Go read something, no offense. You're an atheist but you throw first cause in our face, and then immediately refute it? Your thought process is 100% disjointed, but I appreciate the discussion.[/quote]