I pretty much agree with him. This is always a problem on any kind've game where there is a high learning curve. People feel like noobs so they listen to whoever is deemed knowledgeable instead of researching EVERYTHING themselves, and I don't blame them, it is a lot to take in when you're first starting out, but this does foster information cascade.
Secondly about the Eve thing... he is so right. A month ago everyone laughed at how bad she was. A few days ago I played a ranked game. Someone on my team was yelling at the leader to ban eve, he didn't ban eve. This same person told him to pick eve for him, but the guy that wanted eve didn't have anybody to trade with that the first pick wanted, so he picked Kennen. The other team picks eve. The person who wanted eve proceeds to say GG the game is over already blah blah blah and wouldn't shut up the WHOLE GAME about how the game was ruined because we let the other team had eve. Of course he wasn't buying wards / oracles, of course he was getting owned in his lane even WITHOUT eve ganking him, but no, we lose because the other team has eve and we don't. I AM JUST SO TIRED OF ALL THIS QQ ABOUT EVE! BUY SOME FREAKING WARDS INSTEAD OF ME BEING THE ONLY ONE!
Sorry... /rant
One high elo player does well with a character then everybody thinks they're OP. I do believe some characters have more potential than others, but I believe any character can do well given the right team.
Secondly about the Eve thing... he is so right. A month ago everyone laughed at how bad she was. A few days ago I played a ranked game. Someone on my team was yelling at the leader to ban eve, he didn't ban eve. This same person told him to pick eve for him, but the guy that wanted eve didn't have anybody to trade with that the first pick wanted, so he picked Kennen. The other team picks eve. The person who wanted eve proceeds to say GG the game is over already blah blah blah and wouldn't shut up the WHOLE GAME about how the game was ruined because we let the other team had eve. Of course he wasn't buying wards / oracles, of course he was getting owned in his lane even WITHOUT eve ganking him, but no, we lose because the other team has eve and we don't. I AM JUST SO TIRED OF ALL THIS QQ ABOUT EVE! BUY SOME FREAKING WARDS INSTEAD OF ME BEING THE ONLY ONE!
Sorry... /rant
One high elo player does well with a character then everybody thinks they're OP. I do believe some characters have more potential than others, but I believe any character can do well given the right team.
Thanks to GrandMasterD for my sig!
Mowen wrote:
Secondly about the Eve thing... he is so right. A month ago everyone laughed at how bad she was. A few days ago I played a ranked game. Someone on my team was yelling at the leader to ban eve, he didn't ban eve. This same person told him to pick eve for him, but the guy that wanted eve didn't have anybody to trade with that the first pick wanted, so he picked Kennen. The other team picks eve. The person who wanted eve proceeds to say GG the game is over already blah blah blah and wouldn't shut up the WHOLE GAME about how the game was ruined because we let the other team had eve. Of course he wasn't buying wards / oracles, of course he was getting owned in his lane even WITHOUT eve ganking him, but no, we lose because the other team has eve and we don't. I AM JUST SO TIRED OF ALL THIS QQ ABOUT EVE! BUY SOME FREAKING WARDS INSTEAD OF ME BEING THE ONLY ONE!
Sorry... /rant
One high elo player does well with a character then everybody thinks they're OP. I do believe some characters have more potential than others, but I believe any character can do well given the right team.
Yea, I was sitting there like:
"Oh, cool. They found out a new way to play Evelynn."
There weren't any patch changes that changed this or ANYTHING but suddenly she's OP? NO! You just have to be some sort of terrible to not know how to counter a jungler.
i dont blame the community for being ignorant, stupid trolls that they are -it's not their fault. we are all a part of the community, you and i we are all trolls at one point when playing lol. Does that mean we are bad people? no. Does that mean this game is bad? no. Does that mean the community itself is bad? yes. The community is trolls because when people play a game like LoL when doing bad can not only affect you but your entire team forces us to be trolls. i played other games where i tried to troll (bad lol habits), and i cant even get half a response. in lol, i get trolled the second i go into a game.
There is no one to blame. Therefore don't blame anyone or anything, just play the game and deal with the environment.
There is no one to blame. Therefore don't blame anyone or anything, just play the game and deal with the environment.
nand
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Anyways, just read it, don't be lazy.
Link: http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=436568
Copy and Paste:
The community just needs to sit down, shut the **** up and let Riot do their job for once.
Riot employees, you aren't helping.
and most likely, neither will this thread.
Lets start with our fantastic community.
When I say fantastic, I'm don't actually mean that. The reality is, this community is pretty bad, not the worst thing in the world... but not good either.
Problem One facing the community is the massive ****fest known as social proofing which more often than not has led to an information cascade.
Social proofing is when someone (or multiple people) join a group are unable to determine the appropriate mode of behavior (a social norm). They then make the assumption that surrounding people (the existing community) possess more knowledge on the subject or of the situation and adapt the behaviour they percieve to be the norm of the group (or for the situation). This phenomenon is not as much of an issue when observing and joining small groups, however with a larger population (like say... any large community on the internet) the correct norm is easily distorted (both intentionally and unintentionally).
This affects us in two major ways, first is the above mentioned information cascades and second is simply assimilating the wrong behaviour.
An information cascade is when one person makes a decision or judgement and makes it known, then subsequent people see this and assume it is correct. Each addition person that jumps onto this bandwagon makes the movement stronger, even if the original decision/judgement was uninformed and well, incorrect.
This Information Cascade/Herd Mentality/Bandwagon effect is the number one thing leading to the flooded forums.
Assimilating the wrong behaviour is easy to do. When someone new joins the group, they observe behaviour that is not the norm performed by trolls. The community has decided not to follow rule one and just leave the troll to die, instead they feed the troll.
This person sees the troll getting attention and adopts their behaviour, congratuations guys. We now have 2 trolls.
EXAMPLE. (for where would I be without proof that we suck)
Elementz and the Tier List.
This had two information cascades (or sides to pick), the first was that Elementz must be right and the second was that Elementz is ignorant and shoud not be part of this community
What did we get from this?
A flooded forum - KarmaToki and Elementz calling each other out, other players making their own threads to post their 0.02.
A fed troll - KarmaToki (and hell, Elementz)
A continued flame war - People still bandwagon with regards to the list and are unwilling to change sides
An ignorant community - Elementz' list isn't the League of Legends Bible. Nor is he an idiot.
Now I'm just going to put it out there. Elementz' Tier List was and still is about 90% correct and Tier Lists are inevitible in games like this.
Argue as much as you like that DotA didn't have them or some other BS. But what do you think the Top Leage Bans were? Why did they exist? Who were the top picks? Who was never picked? Guess what, that is tiers 1, 2 and 5. Just because someone isn't calling them a Tier list directly, doesn't mean it isn't a tier list.
Further, his list was made for 5v5 Arranged Teams (and ideally in draft mode) any application outside of this comes down purely to luck and player skill. The whole idea of the list is if two teams of equal skill go up against each other, based on the current patch, the team with more of the higher ranked champions should win (in theory).
The next problem caused by the community is our inability to read.
If you want to post a QQ thread about how Vlad or Eve is OP (Eve is OP shall be discussed later) then for the love of...
DO IT HERE >>>> http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board...isplay.php?f=4
there is an entire subforum for you to QQ in, but unfortunately as a result of social proofing, you just love doing it in General Discussion the other unfortunate side effect of this is everyone wants to make their own thread on the subject. (this is another "omg our community sucks" thread combined with "riot do your job already" but it deserves it's own post because... well I'm a blue person. And it is a big post)
You need help getting your internet to work?
GO TO HELP AND SUPPORT.
Now Riot can easily step in and help clean up Champion Feedback simply by making a Champion Idea subforum, this sends out a message to the community saying "heys guys we are interested in your ideas" and maybe, just maybe people from GD will realise that the Champion Feedback subforum is not for champion ideas but for (and I can't believe I need to spell this out for some of you) Feedback on existing champions
The other thing Riot can do is give us the search bar back. But I understand that this is difficult given the sheer number of users... besides, we can just use google right?
http://www.google.com/cse/
right?
Well no, asking the community to go to google every time they want to know if a thread already exists is just stupid, even if we had a search bar I doubt most of us would use it.
that said, it would be nice if you could try?
then maybe.. wait for it, maybe we could get all the information and opinions on something... in the same place. I'm sure this would make Riot's job that much easier.
While near the topic of trolls and on the topic of Riot.
Riot, please stop trolling genuinely useful posts. While most of them are some form of forum flooding (like give me less oversexed boobs please - http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board...d.php?t=435777)
First reply is someone joking on a serious subject.
Then along comes a Riot employee and does the same.
This should not be the way a company responds to one of the bigest mainstream issues in gaming. If you can't take issues seriously, how can you expect the community to do the same? The first serious response to the issue comes on page 2. yet to find anything with substance after that (and I gave up at page 5).
This came from me skimming page one of GD, I know the big name people at Riot regularly do the same thing
My next favourite community issue is that we are a bunch of whiny useless turds who don't know what we need or want.
my prime example here is Eve. the community hated on Eve. Eve is weak, Eve is useless, Eve is **** teir. BUFF HER! Riot has left her practically unchanged and a month later the community demands that she get nerfed.
The community wanted tanks nerfed, but as soon as it happened there were a mass of complaints that tanks were all useless. You wanted AoE nerfed, but you insist that Riot took it too far.
The community knows very little about balance.
you ALWAYS overnerf, it is the first rule of balancing in a competitive game, if you do it slowly, the same 'imba' tactics will continue to be exploited. Until it reaches the point of overnerf.
By making the changes quickly then very slowly buffing it up to the point where it is viable again, you force a metagame shift. Eve was never underpowered, she just didn't have a place in the metagame. Once her biggest obstacles were removed (AoE and Tanks) she suddenly had a place to thrive along side other burstsins who had previously been more viable (although not great). So is Eve genuinely OP or are we just experiencing another cascade? She fits into the meta better than the squishy DPS carries that are complaining, maybe that is the real issue.
This caster gank metagame will stick around a while, it will have time to mature (AoE and Tanks will get their chance to be buffed up to par) then Eve, Anivia, LB, Kass will all be overnerfed and a new meta will emerge.
when you see 3 consecutive small nerfs to any of the dominant champions, know it is your time to look for the next big thing.
Riot. Keep going, you have made a pretty good game so far, obviously there are flaws, but you are working on that. Obviously there are issues that need to be addressed, and you are getting there. Keep going and turn a good game into a great game.
but do throw us a bone occasionally. And pay a little more attention to me. :P I make a about a third of my income doing this.
there is more I could give you but for now you can just have my rant.
call me?
xoxo
-Pandora