Riven

[quote=Satella][url=http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/blog/satella/armor-penetration-runes-math]Did the math for you[/url]. Not even in the best possible condition does Armor Penetration do a better job than AD. The more [[Riven]] levels up, the higher the AD ratio on her passive gets, and opponents will gain more armor as well through items and leveling up. Due to this, armor penetration marks will never be better than AD marks on Riven.[/quote]

[quote=IAmByakuya]Oh boy...[/quote]

[quote=BusDriver210][quote=Satella] [url=http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/blog/satella/armor-penetration-runes-math]Did the math for you[/url]. Not even in the best possible condition does Armor Penetration do a better job than AD. The more [[Riven]] levels up, the higher the AD ratio on her passive gets, and opponents will gain more armor as well through items and leveling up. Due to this, armor penetration marks will never be better than AD marks on Riven. [/quote] [quote=BusDriver210]I don't play Riven, so I'll have to give you this one. Regardless Arpen is more effective this season than it ever has been. That is my main point.[/quote][/quote]

[quote=Satella]Wasn't talking to you.[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=Satella] [url=http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/blog/satella/armor-penetration-runes-math]Did the math for you[/url]. Not even in the best possible condition does Armor Penetration do a better job than AD. The more [[Riven]] levels up, the higher the AD ratio on her passive gets, and opponents will gain more armor as well through items and leveling up. Due to this, armor penetration marks will never be better than AD marks on Riven. [/quote] I only see level 1 calculations. Like at what level do they outscale? How do last whisper and cleaver fit into the equation? We only talked about a full combo (aa + q + aa + q + aa + q) which you hardly always get. This was the reason why I didn't do it yet, it's more complex than you think. Though I don't really need this for anything whatsoever. The rule might apply to Riven but my biggest issue was with how you stated it.[/quote]

[quote=Satella]It's the same even with a single autoattack not buffed by [[Runic Blade]]. 82.17 * 0.8597 < 90.72 * 0.7822. [[Broken Wings]] gaining additional base damage seems like it would allow armor penetration to outscale, but because you also gain [[Ki Burst]] and additional AD ratio on your passive, this does not actually happen. What I said makes sense. If you have an ability with 5000% bonus AD scaling then obviously 8.5AD gives you more damage than 11.5 armor penetration. There comes a point where the AD scaling is high enough that you would do more total damage with AD marks than ArPen marks.[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=Satella] It's the same even with a single autoattack not buffed by [[Runic Blade]]. 82.17 * 0.8597 < 90.72 * 0.7822. [[Broken Wings]] gaining additional base damage seems like it would allow armor penetration to outscale, but because you also gain [[Ki Burst]] and additional AD ratio on your passive, this does not actually happen. What I said makes sense. If you have an ability with 5000% bonus AD scaling then obviously 8.5AD gives you more damage than 11.5 armor penetration. There comes a point where the AD scaling is high enough that you would do more total damage with AD marks than ArPen marks. [/quote] Fair enough. I see my own mistake, I forgot about her crappy base damages.[/quote]

[quote=Darcurse]Not saying anything about which is better at what point, but except for that one special case regarding Riven's Passive... Why do you talk like every skill will increase it's AD scaling with each level?[/quote]

[quote=Satella]That's not what I said. "There comes a point where the AD scaling is high enough that you would do more total damage with AD marks than ArPen marks" means that the choice between ArPen marks and AD marks is dependent on the AD scaling on a champion's combo damage. Higher AD scaling = AD marks do more damage, while ArPen marks only gain from base damage.[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=Satella] That's not what I said. "There comes a point where the AD scaling is high enough that you would do more total damage with AD marks than ArPen marks" means that the choice between ArPen marks and AD marks is dependent on the AD scaling on a champion's combo damage. Higher AD scaling = AD marks do more damage, while ArPen marks only gain from base damage. [/quote] But it is what I said. It's about the scaling base damage ratio and her base damages are low making penetration less effective.[/quote]