Best way to Counter Shyvana

[quote=GrandmasterD]To clear sth here; [[Zed]] loses hard to [[Shyvana]] (and [[Dr. Mundo]]) if they play properly which is to be aggressive early-game where [[Zed]] has no answer. [[Zed]] needs at least two major items before he can really stand a chance against most bruisers which is why isn't - and shouldn't - be played top.[/quote]

[quote=SOAC Bas][quote=GrandmasterD] To clear sth here; [[Zed]] loses hard to [[Shyvana]] (and [[Dr. Mundo]]) if they play properly which is to be aggressive early-game where [[Zed]] has no answer. [[Zed]] needs at least two major items before he can really stand a chance against most bruisers which is why isn't - and shouldn't - be played top. [/quote] I really don't like any assassins top except teemo. The rest have the same issues they take a lot longer to get strong.[/quote]

[quote=drakon136]Since when is Teemo anything but a cancer?[/quote]

[quote=DillButt64][quote=SOAC Bas] [quote=GrandmasterD] To clear sth here; [[Zed]] loses hard to [[Shyvana]] (and [[Dr. Mundo]]) if they play properly which is to be aggressive early-game where [[Zed]] has no answer. [[Zed]] needs at least two major items before he can really stand a chance against most bruisers which is why isn't - and shouldn't - be played top. [/quote] I really don't like any assassins top except teemo. The rest have the same issues they take a lot longer to get strong. [/quote] then why are you trying to say zed can win lane against shyvana so good...[/quote]

[quote=NateDog13][quote=GrandmasterD] To clear sth here; [[Zed]] loses hard to [[Shyvana]] (and [[Dr. Mundo]]) if they play properly which is to be aggressive early-game where [[Zed]] has no answer. [[Zed]] needs at least two major items before he can really stand a chance against most bruisers which is why isn't - and shouldn't - be played top. [/quote] I feel as though the meaning for why assassins get played top has been lost. Zed vs Shyvana is a lost fight, you're throwing a lawn mower at a brick wall and eventually one or the other is gonna break. However, the whole point of any assassin top lane isn't to win the lane in this meta, its to make a larger impact via roaming. Assassins can set up and make a lot more kills happen than bruisers/tanks can, and with that said, he still has viability top lane regardless of what anybody wants to say. And yes, the roaming potential of top laners generally come from teleport and should the assassin not have it, all they can do is really roam mid or steal red from the jungler, but it still makes a significant impact on the game for things like assisting a jungler on invasions early on and forcing early towers.[/quote]

[quote=drakon136][quote=NateDog13]However, the whole point of any assassin top lane isn't to win the lane in this meta, its to make a larger impact via roaming.[/quote] That would be a valid point if it was much easier to roam and gank if you are in mid-lane.[/quote]

[quote=SOAC Bas][quote=DillButt64] [quote=SOAC Bas] [quote=GrandmasterD] To clear sth here; [[Zed]] loses hard to [[Shyvana]] (and [[Dr. Mundo]]) if they play properly which is to be aggressive early-game where [[Zed]] has no answer. [[Zed]] needs at least two major items before he can really stand a chance against most bruisers which is why isn't - and shouldn't - be played top. [/quote] I really don't like any assassins top except teemo. The rest have the same issues they take a lot longer to get strong. [/quote] then why are you trying to say zed can win lane against shyvana so good... [/quote] I didn't say [[Zed]] can win lane against [[Shyvana]]. I said he is a good matchup. Winning lane isn't just about outfarming your opponent Natedog explains how you win lane without actually beating them. Essentially you keep them in lane and then gank other lanes repeatedly then going back to keep them in lane. [quote]I feel as though the meaning for why assassins get played top has been lost. Zed vs Shyvana is a lost fight, you're throwing a lawn mower at a brick wall and eventually one or the other is gonna break. However, the whole point of any assassin top lane isn't to win the lane in this meta, its to make a larger impact via roaming. Assassins can set up and make a lot more kills happen than bruisers/tanks can, and with that said, he still has viability top lane regardless of what anybody wants to say. And yes, the roaming potential of top laners generally come from teleport and should the assassin not have it, all they can do is really roam mid or steal red from the jungler, but it still makes a significant impact on the game for things like assisting a jungler on invasions early on and forcing early towers.[/quote][/quote]

[quote=SOAC Bas][quote=drakon136] [quote=NateDog13]However, the whole point of any assassin top lane isn't to win the lane in this meta, its to make a larger impact via roaming.[/quote] That would be a valid point if it was much easier to roam and gank if you are in mid-lane. [/quote] Correlation and Causation are not equal. Things that are different are not the same. This is not a discussion on mid-lane roaming therfore this point while valid is invalid in the discussion we are having which is simply can you counter Shyvana with an assassin. The answer is yes, but not in the traditional sense.[/quote]

[quote=NateDog13]Adding to Soac Bas's comment, you kind of just ignored what I said afterwards. So I'll regurgitate: "...And yes, the roaming potential of top laners generally come from teleport [color=#ff0000]and should the assassin not have it[/color], all they can do is really roam mid or steal red from the jungler, but it still makes a significant impact on the game for things like assisting a jungler on invasions early on and forcing early towers."[/quote]

[quote=SOAC Bas][quote=NateDog13] Adding to Soac Bas's comment, you kind of just ignored what I said afterwards. So I'll regurgitate: "...And yes, the roaming potential of top laners generally come from teleport [color=#ff0000]and should the assassin not have it[/color], all they can do is really roam mid or steal red from the jungler, but it still makes a significant impact on the game for things like assisting a jungler on invasions early on and forcing early towers." [/quote] This is the biggest difference between solo queue lifers and team play. A top lane assassin in team play will communicate to his jungler at the start of the game let's go kill opposing jungler at red. They then push the lane out leave and go kill the opposing jungler return with buffs and kill top lane then push and take turret. Standard top lane play is I am going to passively farm until lvl 10 and have items then I will leave lane. I am workign on ganking jungler at red as a mid laner and top laner. I even once ganked jungler at blue as a support. It's an easy way to get the other team early and cause their jungler to fall behind.[/quote]