Champions for ranked climb

[quote=GrandmasterD]On topic: [[Xerath]], [[Zed]], [[Jarvan IV]].[/quote]

[quote=N1nYo]SWAIN[/quote]

[quote=OTGBionicArm][quote=luizdeh] Let's see: I never lost lane since [[diana]]'s nerf as [[gragas]], [[orianna]] and [[kayle]]. Haven't seen her do well against anybody in a loooong time. [[lissandra]] has great waveclear and roaming potential, granted, also very safe. She lacks damage though, and can only run away after using ulti. Disagree strongly about [[Syndra]]. Her lack of mobility is only an issue if she has no mana to stun or a dude is hungry enough to flash it. IMO, [[ashe]] and [[varus]] lose lane to [[caitlyn]], [[lucian]] and [[jinx]]. IMO. Everything else you just commented on, didn't actually disagree. [/quote] I agree with GMD but I'll make a few of my own points. [list] [*] I think [[Gragas]] is actually easy as hell for other melee mages and casters with any form of poke that's relatively cheap or short cooldown. hence why i think [[Diana]] can win provided she dodges barrels. This is also why I think [[Yasuo]] innately wins the matchup without [[Wind wall]]. [[Orianna]] vs [[Diana]] is one of those match ups where [[Diana]] cries and curls up for 6 levels and then suddenly has an edge if [[orianna]] uses her ult foolishly. Not to mention [[Diana]] has a far better roaming game. [[Kayle]] is a fair match up, I'd say. Can go either ay, but I agree [[Kayle]] shits on her later in the game. [*] She has some of the highest upfront burst+CC in the game if we ignore ratios. Insane base damages. [*] [[Syndra]] is high skill cap but man can she kill pretty much anything in a combo. It's pretty damn silly when played right. [*] [[Ashe]] wins games through coordination on her ultimate. That's why she isnt a soloQ pick. in premades she can be devastating. As GMD also said she has range so she's generally safe from most harass that isnt [[Caitlyn]]. [[Varus]] has some of the highest burst of any ADC at a very high range. He's great for poke comps and his ultimate can devastate team fights. His trading is very good, as again stated by GMD, but laning isn't EVERYTHING with ADC's.[/quote]

[quote=PoisonIvy]I have been playing [[Lissandra]] a lot lately and I feel like she fits in almost any comp. She can't 1v1 as other mages, but her teamfighting potential is amazing.[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=OTGBionicArm] [quote=luizdeh] Let's see: I never lost lane since [[diana]]'s nerf as [[gragas]], [[orianna]] and [[kayle]]. Haven't seen her do well against anybody in a loooong time. [[lissandra]] has great waveclear and roaming potential, granted, also very safe. She lacks damage though, and can only run away after using ulti. Disagree strongly about [[Syndra]]. Her lack of mobility is only an issue if she has no mana to stun or a dude is hungry enough to flash it. IMO, [[ashe]] and [[varus]] lose lane to [[caitlyn]], [[lucian]] and [[jinx]]. IMO. Everything else you just commented on, didn't actually disagree. [/quote] I agree with GMD but I'll make a few of my own points. [list] [*] I think [[Gragas]] is actually easy as hell for other melee mages and casters with any form of poke that's relatively cheap or short cooldown. hence why i think [[Diana]] can win provided she dodges barrels. This is also why I think [[Yasuo]] innately wins the matchup without [[Wind wall]]. [*] [[Syndra]] is high skill cap but man can she kill pretty much anything in a combo. It's pretty damn silly when played right. [/quote] [list] [*] The reason it's fairly easy for [[Diana]] is because she can actualy bully [[Gragas]] in lane and a lot of melees can't. Additionally it's easy to outplay [[Barrel Roll]] with [[Lunar Rush]] and [[Moonfall]] interrupts [[Body Slam]]. Also, [[Gragas]] will never be able to one-shot her which is one of her perks. [*] [[Syndra]] has absolutely not a high skill cap. [[Lee Sin]], [[Zed]], [[Fizz]] have a high skill cap. See that what they have in common? Mobility. The only thing that's remotely tough about [[Syndra]] is her E, and even that isn't too hard to use. [/list][/quote]

[quote=Luther3000][quote=luizdeh] IMO, [[ashe]] and [[varus]] lose lane to [[caitlyn]], [[lucian]] and [[jinx]]. IMO. [/quote] Ashe and Varus are actually two of the better picks vs Caitlyn in lane due to having higher than average range and harass abilities as well as hard CC to allow you to all in really easily. I wouldn't say they're guaranteed to beat her by any means but they do better than a lot of stuff. Varus is also a really good laner in general, he's definitely capable of taking on Lucian and Jinx.[/quote]

[quote=luizdeh][quote=GrandmasterD] [*] [[Syndra]] has absolutely not a high skill cap. [[Lee Sin]], [[Zed]], [[Fizz]] have a high skill cap. See that what they have in common? Mobility. The only thing that's remotely tough about [[Syndra]] is her E, and even that isn't too hard to use. [/quote] For reals? Mobility isn't the one and only requirement for skill cap. That's like saying [[cassiopeia]] isn't a high skill cap champion.[/quote]

[quote=OTGBionicArm]I think what GMD is saying is that hard to use mechanics aren't exactly "skill" if you're using it the same way every time. There's no real decision with either [[Syndra]] or [[Cassiopeia]]. They just wanna land their abilities and make something die. His examples of mobility all regard mobility for juking and outplaying; In order words: Skill Cap.[/quote]

[quote=luizdeh]I don't agree with that at all. You're still reducing skill cap to mobility, regardless what it is used for. Landing difficult skillshots time and time again require skill, for instance. But that's ok and we digress... on-topic: [[kayle]]. Can carry hard and still bring utility. I think even after nerfs she'll be fine. Also, rito pls, stop nerfing her. I miss the DFG built-in her Q.[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD]Obviously some champs are harder to play than others. You could argue that [[Syndra]] is like [[Cassiopeia]] in the sense that she's hard to utilize but that's not the same as skill cap. Mobility isn't the only requirement but dashes and blinks such as [[Living Shadow]] and [[Playful / Trickster]] require a lot more decision making than [[Dark Sphere]] does. I do think that [[Cassiopeia]] is fairly straighforward but her skills are tough to utilise to maximum potential (i.e. Innate grants reduced mana costs when spamming spells, Q grants a speed boost, W slows, E refreshes when hitting a poisoned target) so I don't think the comparison is completely fair. [[Syndra]]'s kit allows for virtually no outplay potential and her EQ combo is about as hard as J4's. Skill Cap is defined, imo, by how hard it is to use your abilities to optimal potential. Mobility has a lot to do with this because it heavily determines outplay potential as positioning is one of the most important factors of the game. Same story applies to skill shots (hence the name lol) because they are based on the enemy's positioning. Area-Targeted abilities are harder to utilise than abilities that target champions but generally they are still faily easy to hit (e.g. [[Javelin Toss]] is harder to hit than [[Arcanopulse]]). Some champions, however, are just hard to utilise because they require a lot of decision making. [[Katarina]] and [[Xerath]] are examples of this. Their innate skill cap isn't very high but they are pretty tough to play properly because your decisions are more important. Long story short: I think Skill Cap defines how hard it is to make the most out of a champion's kit and based on that I think [[Syndra]] has a pretty low Skill Cap.[/quote]