my eyes

@Wicked Eye, I wouldn't have said maxing Flay is ******ed based on speculation alone. I've tested it several times - I probably have more Thresh games where I maxed E over Q - and Q is just objectively better. If you're talking about how Lulu can dodge hooks with her speed up buff, it's even easier for her to run out of your ridiculously small auto attack range. The only case where I can imagine maxing Flay first would be preferable is when you can stomp lane by yourself and your AD is an autistic hyper carry that only wants to CS, and even then, you'd need to bring the runes and masteries to be useful for at least the laning phase; it's just not worth it.

To be fair though, I don't think I'm Madlife, so I've probably only played against bad Lulus. If I can get some experience with how better Lulus play, I'll definitely amend the guide to include more information, but as far as I know, Lulu isn't nearly as hard to deal with as ADCs with blinks/dashes.

@Vyrnetje I know, you say that on every thresh guide that doesn't show maxing Q first xD My problem is the way he says it, early game some people like to max E first in case matched up against a champion that can constantly dodge your hooks for more harassing opportunity. Maxing Q in general is better, yes, but its not ******ed to max E on some cases.

@Blankaex I'm pretty sure you only got bad Lulus... or you're Madlife, I find it quite easy to lane against a Thresh, even if he hooks you or hook the ADC its pretty easy to disengage and avoid damage. And it is just as easy to poke you down to 100 health with her passive and some Qs.

@ Wicked Eye, Q is better because of the massively lowered cooldown. Having your hook twice or maybe even 3 times as much is massive in fights, especially mid game.

Lulu is a hard matchup if she plays it well because it's so hard to even get in range for a hook if you keep Qing his face.

i ahve to say i agree with you Blankaex lulu is a pushover as long as u can land your hook and let adc do the rest she will use her ply on you and leave teh adc to derp all over her as for maxing E first i have to say..meh.. it would seem good if your going to be more of a E then Q when they run but i would best get that Q and W around teh same time :P other than that pretty good build self explanotory :3 if you need any help i suggest cheking out my thresh build for some tips to add to yours :D although some ppl frown upon it due to adding a mor ehumarous tole and bieng completey off teh chart for traditional thresh :D

I've tried maxing Flay for a long time, and it just doesn't work as well as maxing Death Sentence. You're too prone to harrass, especially since Thresh's auto attack range was reduced. I just don't think it's worth it at all to go for the Flay first.

Lulu is a matchup I've played a couple of times, but I don't think it's difficult at all. I'll add it to the guide if it will make you happy, though. I also did talk about all the spells - every single one of them - but if you think it's worthwhile to write more, I can find some time to do that. I wasn't looking to spend too much time formatting, with links and images and such, so I tried to keep the writing somewhat short.

WTF?? Some people like to max Flay first because of the bonus damage on the AA, which is a big advantage over other tank/melee champions, so the ADC can focus on farming while Thresh pokes. If you think you can land Death Sentence all the time so your ADC will always be able to deal damage, good for you, but for most people it is a more effective way of being aggressive since people can always dodge or stay behind minions forever. Sure I like having my cooldown on Q lower and Id rather go that way, but it isn't stupid to max E first.

Lulu is possibly one of the hardest matches for Thresh and you have no mention of her.

And no, to you it might be obvious why you make those choices, but you should definitely explain more in-depth the items, runes, masteries, spells and etc, this is a guide for people to learn, if they want to just look quickly, there are the notes, if they want more explanations, there is the guide.

I see your logic regarding the early Mobis. I'll test it out and see how it goes. I've also gotten into some discussion about whether or not to build a support item at all, since it's somewhat difficult to use Relic Shield with Thresh as opposed to a melee support that can make use of the execute, although Thresh's Flay passive makes it a bit more bearable. Coin is all right, but I prefer the health from Relic Shield for early all-ins, and I figured starting Ruby Crystal might be better. What are your thoughts on this?

Since Randuins was recently nerfed, coupled with my Thresh playstyle where I often won't be able to make good use of the passive or the active, I've found Frozen Heart to work better. It gives more armour, as well as mana and CDR which are pretty nice stats for Thresh, and is a bit cheaper too. I tried rushing Mikaels and Face of the Mountain a few times for mana/MR/HP but it didn't work out as well as the Frozen Heart rush did. I've also done the Locket rush a few times, but the total tanky stats are extremely underwhelming.

Regarding Nami: I also see what you're talking about here. I've never had a Nami turn on me since she would usually get chunked really hard, but it could be dangerous, I suppose. I'll amend the guide to make note of this, thanks!

Mobi's (best boots for thresh) are great to get early/mid game (I usually get them after upgraded gold income item + sightstone) and definitely mandatory. Allow you to roam around the map and ward a lot easier / more effectively.

Personally I'd start relic shield and finish the upgrade first. Else I'd grab coin on my first base and get talisman for the active. Randuin's is a more standard first buy as it also gives some much needed hp. Frozen heart is decent but situational still. Another great first item is Locket. You can even go mikael's as first core item if your ADC really needs the cleanse.

There's a lot of variety possible but Frozen Heart is very situational and often better reserved for a later slot.

Regarding Nami: A good nami will push and poke you down from level 1. She doesn't only heal, but also got a lot of damage and cc meaning she can both disengage or counterengage you if you go for a bad engage on her. She is quite vulnerable to get hooked indeed but it's incredibly dangerous to hook her as she can easily heal and turn around all the damage / cc on your own carry. Source: I'm a Nami main.

I've been playing around with different builds, and I've liked the Frozen Heart rush a lot more than most other options, but what do you think is optimal? I also rarely get boots until 2-3 finished items, and it's been working out for me so far. How important are they on Thresh? I've also not had much trouble against most Namis. Her heal is annoying because it nullifies a lot of the stuff you do if you can't pick up kills, but she's extremely easy to catch and chunk really hard, putting her out of commission for a good amount of time. Maybe I've just been playing against bad Namis, though.

Frozen heart rush? Before even getting boots?

Nami super easy matchup?

Sorry but no.