Another School Shooting

[quote=Lugignaf][quote=utopus] Perhaps the better way to go about this kind of thing would be to improve the quality of mental health care, to reduce the frequency that hysterical people go on murderous rampages[/quote] But obviously, that's not the cause of people going on rampages. It's race(sometimes true) or something happened in their life. [b]OR VIDEO GAMES![/b] While people getting mental health care would certainly help in a lot of ways, it also falls upon the afflicted person to get it themselves, or someone else to notice and get them there. It's a good step towards less shootings in general, but it's by no means the end-all to it.[/quote]

[quote=Mooninites]The real problem here is mental illness, not guns. This kid was obviously mentally fucked up, just go read his twitter. He couldn't handle basic pressures that most teenagers could (seems like he went psycho from his break up). I really find it funny that people think taking away guns is going to change something. Go to the source of the problem which is the fact that this kid had a serious mental illness that went untreated and/or unnoticed. There are literally millions of Americans that own guns and are law abiding citizens, in fact, school shootings and gun related violence has been going down per capita for decades now. The only reason you hear about it is because of the 24/7 news cycle. [quote=Darcurse] In most of the anti-gun countries this works because guns weren't allowed in the first place, for a few decades at least (without heavy restrictions). Let's say you outlaw guns in the US today. What then? Nationwide call for every registered gun to be turned in? Costs unbearable, takes a ton of time and what to do with all those guns? And then there's the problem of millions of unregistered ones floating around. Mostly the ones that are used by criminals, which are the troublemakers to begin with. Plus the big pro-gun party (which includes a shitton of influential folks) who would riot and most likely not hand them over freely. No matter what, it will take a giant load of time to do this. I probably would start by introducing heavy punishment for possession of unregistered weaponry and force gun-nuts to die out by applying great taxes on private gun possession. But even if you have some clues on how to do it, problem is to get them going without being sabotaged by the corporation controlled politican system (=lobbying). [/quote] You literally have no idea what you're talking about do you? Do you want to know the reason why the NRA is a powerful interest group? It's because there are lots of members in the NRA, it isn't some minority of people in the United States, it's one of the largest lobbying groups for a reason, because there are millions of members in the NRA. That doesn't make them "gun-nuts" because they want to exercise their constitutional right to own a gun. I know the idea of a citizens individual rights is a pretty foreign concept in Europe given the current European Union fiasco that you have going on there, but in America a large amount of Americans actually value their rights and the constitution guarantees them the right to bear arms.[/quote]

[quote=mastrer1000][quote=Mooninites]The real problem here is mental illness, not guns. This kid was obviously mentally fucked up, just go read his twitter. He couldn't handle basic pressures that most teenagers could (seems like he went psycho from his break up). I really find it funny that people think taking away guns is going to change something. Go to the source of the problem which is the fact that this kid had a serious mental illness that went untreated and/or unnoticed. There are literally millions of Americans that own guns and are law abiding citizens, in fact, school shootings and gun related violence has been going down per capita for decades now. The only reason you hear about it is because of the 24/7 news cycle. [quote=Darcurse] In most of the anti-gun countries this works because guns weren't allowed in the first place, for a few decades at least (without heavy restrictions). Let's say you outlaw guns in the US today. What then? Nationwide call for every registered gun to be turned in? Costs unbearable, takes a ton of time and what to do with all those guns? And then there's the problem of millions of unregistered ones floating around. Mostly the ones that are used by criminals, which are the troublemakers to begin with. Plus the big pro-gun party (which includes a shitton of influential folks) who would riot and most likely not hand them over freely. No matter what, it will take a giant load of time to do this. I probably would start by introducing heavy punishment for possession of unregistered weaponry and force gun-nuts to die out by applying great taxes on private gun possession. But even if you have some clues on how to do it, problem is to get them going without being sabotaged by the corporation controlled politican system (=lobbying). [/quote] You literally have no idea what you're talking about do you? Do you want to know the reason why the NRA is a powerful interest group? It's because there are lots of members in the NRA, it isn't some minority of people in the United States, it's one of the largest lobbying groups for a reason, because there are millions of members in the NRA. That doesn't make them "gun-nuts" because they want to exercise their constitutional right to own a gun. I know the idea of a citizens individual rights is a pretty foreign concept in Europe given the current European Union fiasco that you have going on there, but in America a large amount of Americans actually value their rights and the constitution guarantees them the right to bear arms.[/quote] It is obvious that guns aren't the problem, but without guns there could be no schoolk shootings. It is easier to remove guns than to remove mental illness. And also, what does the average guy need a gun for(other than I NEED GUNS BECAUSE FREEDOM AND SHIT)?[/quote]

[quote=Mooninites]It's simply not true that if you would remove guns you would end school shootings. Thats an incredibly uneducated and incorrect opinion[/quote]

[quote=Meiyjhe][quote=Mooninites]It's simply not true that if you would remove guns you would end school shootings. Thats an incredibly uneducated and incorrect opinion[/quote]You would certainly reduce it. In the Netherlands drugs are a thing right? My town is near the border of Belgium and used to have a lot of junkies walking around my town because coffeeshops. The people living here of course did not really like that, nor did our mayor. Junkies are not wellknown because of their sane behaviour. Because of this, the town decided to ban all drug trades and ever since then, things go a lot better for my town. Incidents like street violence or the appearence of shady figures in general was severely reduced. Sure you still see some blackmarket trades, but the results speak for themselves. Though many things have changed since then with national laws on international drug trades etc. and the fact that drugs aren't the same things as weapons, if you make it harder for people to obtain the bad stuff then they will also less likely do bad stuff with it. Even when they are not the source of the problem.[/quote]

[quote=Mooninites]It's actually not the case. Take for example Britain's ban on hand-guns. The homicide rate nearly doubled in 6 years. It does fluctuate but despite banning hand-guns Britains homicide rate has never fallen below that of when the ban occurred. The same is true in Ireland and Jamaica: [spoiler] [img]http://crimepreventionresearchcenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Ireland-Jamaica-2.jpeg[/img] [/spoiler] In fact despite, all you hear about gun related violence, US gun related violence had gone down for 5 straight years as of [url=http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/29/justice/us-violent-crime/index.html]2012[/url] [url=http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2012/12/11/gun-crime-soars-in-england-where-guns-are-banned-n1464528]Here's another article[/url] talking about the gun bans in UK. Take for example Mexico where it is illegal to own a gun, it's ranked 21st in terms of intentional homicides. And looking at Jamiaica which also had a gun ban, it ranks 6th in terms of intentional homdicide. [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate]Source[/url] It's even worse if you actually consider homicides by gun, Jamaica is ranked 3rd and Mexico is ranked 10th The data doesn't support your argument, in fact it's in clear contrast to your argument[/quote]

[quote=Searz][quote=DillButt64]its not like [the US is] a third world country[/quote] Yeah, but Americans seem to be doing their best to turn it into one. What's the quota up to now? A couple of trillions of dollars in debt?[/quote]

[quote=Mooninites]We all know how well the European Union is doing these days[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=Searz][quote=DillButt64]its not like [the US is] a third world country[/quote] Yeah, but Americans seem to be doing their best to turn it into one. What's the quota up to now? A couple of trillions of dollars in debt?[/quote] [quote=Mooninites]We all know how well the European Union is doing these days[/quote] Are we going to turn this into a US vs. EU conversation? That's pathetic. Also, trying to compare the European Union to the United States is really fucking stupid on its own. I do not think Searz' comment was relevant here, but this comparison screams ignorance.[/quote]

[quote=Latest Legend]Just like I don't know much about the US, it seems like you don't know much of the EU either. I don't see how you think reduced individual rights and the EU are related. I guess GMD's ninja comment is a bit more direct x) Neither do I understand why people are so attached to the simple idea that everyone can own a gun. I never said a full ban should be instantiated, but that, in my eyes, there should be high criteria for getting a license, regular checks to see if the person is still valid for owning a license, and good control over gun flow. What part of not allowing anyone to have a lethal object, created for killing others instead of the owner, is so offensive? I assume it's not like everyone wants to have a gun. What makes this right so important? To kill a burglar? I doubt it. To kill a neighbor? I doubt it. There's no practical need for a gun, other than sports and work, which is why it shouldn't be banned out completely. Governments have a lot of power on other, more fundamental fronts. Like food for example. And land. In some countries you don't even own the rights over your own life. Why is having power over other people's lives, and other people having power over your life, so much more important than having power over your own body and life?[/quote]