Season 5 Jungle Discussion

[quote=Aeadar]With the first of the season 5 changes being implemented, and that one of the biggest changes in the season is the jungle, I'd like to see what people think about what will change about strategies in the jungle and what would be the "good" junglers.[/quote]

[quote=OTGBionicArm]As near as I can figure; champions with strong level 6 spikes will be dominant. This means champions like [[Warwick]] and possibly [[Nocturne]] and other similar "no ganks til ultimate" styles. The other types of champions that will rise will be champions that abuse the chicken buff hard (as season 5 allows for rapid ward clearing). AKA, champions like [[Fiddlesticks]] and [[Shaco]]. [[Shaco]] and his buddy [[nunu]] will also have a field day simply stealing your shit. But as for the jungle as a whole. Dragon is far more important to get now due to it's stacking buffs. The scuttle crab provides a ridiculously long "ward" speed shrine to cover Baron and Dragon, so he's indirectly important. Baron now longer allows teams to just faceroll a team fight, but it now let's you steamroll lanes like crazy. Overall, League is now more objective focused via the jungle changes, which is nice.[/quote]

[quote=Aeadar]What I think with the new [[hunter's machete]] is that the item enchantments, not the [[smite]] upgrades will have the biggest effect on the game. Jungle sustain will also be a problem with none of the machete upgrades/enchantments(except blasting smite), improve the jungler's sustain buy any amount. I think that junglers with a form of innate sustain, will thrive in the new jungle. Some things the might be good to try jungle: [[Cho'gath]], [[tryndamere]], [[trundle]], [[xin zhao]], [[aatrox]]. The problem with these champions before were their inconsistent ganks, which the new [[smite]]s might be able to fix.[/quote]

[quote=OTGBionicArm][[Cho'Gath]] won't improve simply because his kit is clunky and ancient. [[Maokai]] or [[Rammus]] do that whole unkillable tank thing better. [[Tryndamere]] is still likely better off top lane, as is [[Trundle]] (due to speed issues). [[Xin Zhao]] may see some increased pick rate due to his sustain and the new devourer enchantment essentially being a better Feral Flare. And I can already tell you that [[Aatrox]] brings nothing to jungling that other better junglers can't do, other than solid early tower dives. Thing is though, the new smites are iffy. Especially with these champs as you say, having less than consistent ganks. This means if you smite a champ then fail a gank, your smite is now on cooldown, and the enemy jungler has free reign to take your crap. As far as I know, the direct damage slow Smite is terrible. The only upgrades most people run is Ranger's Trailblazer (nearly everyone) or Skirmisher's Sabre (Shaco, Warwick, Xin, Noc, etc. On-hit/duelists)[/quote]

[quote=Aeadar]Early ganking is really difficult with the harder hitting jungle monsters, so level 3 ganks are practically suicide. Post-1st back ganks will probably be the most common pattern, or as you said level 6 ganks with junglers designed to have huge power spikes at that level. Soooooo..... [[warwick]] and [[fiddlesticks]][/quote]

[quote=MungoGeri]My jungle [[lulu]] was better than my [[rammus]]. No joke. Yes, I'm going to alter my guide. On-hit lulu is awesome if you can get to mid to late game. And, of course, that means that on-hit [[kayle]] is even better. Think about it: skirmisher's sabre with the devourer enchantment. In the game I was just in, that item alone was doing 75 magic damage plus 67 true damage on-hit with a fast attack [[kayle]] build. It's awesome. Plus, [[kayle]] has his heal, so he farms well on the first couple of jungle passes that can be tough for many junglers. My pattern in the jungle so far is to ask for a hard leash on the Red buff (usually quaffing both of my healing potions), smiting the rock guys for the stun buff, kill blue, and then smite the frog. With all those buffs on me, clearing the jungle is pretty quick and easy at that point. However, I haven't had to deal with a good counter jungler, yet, so who knows?[/quote]

[quote=OTGBionicArm]I'm leaning on level 6 ganks. From what I've seen, the champions that can survive the early jungle with sustain have level 6 spikes. Champions like Lee and Kha'Zix seem to suffer in the jungler up til level 6 and possibly beyond.[/quote]

[quote=Jimmydoggga 2.0]The fact that 2 dragons gives your entire team ridiculous waveclear isn't overpowered at all. No sir.[/quote]

[quote=HiFromBuddha]I'll briefly explain the mentality behind [[Katarina]], [[Fiora]] and [[amumu]] nerfs for the preseason. The new preseason brings us many new changes. While good ol' Bazza's spawn is pushed back with the strong new benefits you get from slaying him, dragon has remained the same except with even stronger goodies. Dragon is now a very big center-piece for a lot of the game. The bonuses it offers are just such a huge bonus for any team. Because of this, the focus on dragon starts earlier. People want to be getting those early dragon stacks so they can easily reach the coveted five stacks easily by late game. Additionally, scuttle crab will be contested by junglers for the river vision and roaming capability. Additionally, base stats have gone up. Now, a lot of champions aren't afraid to have those early skirmishes since heavy late game oriented champions can now fair decently in the early game. Now, an early game isn't necessarily dictated by champ select. Early game champions still flourish in the early game, but late game team comps now have an easier time dealing with early game comps. This encourages more aggression. People can fight because of the stat buffs, so early duels have become more popular. Finally, you get full gold for kills at all stages of the game. Once again, early aggression is encouraged with this. Some people may choose to have a level one skirmish in the jungle in order to flourish from these bonuses. So, what do these all have in common? Teamfights are happening earlier. More and more duels are being created in the jungle in order for jungle objectives to be obtained, as well as jungle changes allowing for different styles of play, heavy objective focuses are now the norm, and in order to prevent teams from snowballing from objectives, fights are necessary to contest it. People fight earlier. So, who benefits from earlier fights? Champions with very strong level 6s, especially in a teamfight situation. [[Katarina]] has an incredibly high damage and low cooldown ult that's also AoE. Teamfights like these heavily benefit her. [[Amumu]]'s [[Curse of the sad mummy]] is an incredibly strong teamfight ultimate, often dictating fights, especially at lower levels. [[Blade Waltz]], like the other ultimates, is also very strong AoE wise, especially with a likely [[Tiamat]] by [[Fiora]]. Earlier fights are happening, and champions that have really strong early-mid game teamfight ultimates do very well, hence, the nerfs. As for which champions I feel like will do well, I'm going to say keep an eye out for [[Nunu]]. Counterjungling and objective control is better and more important than ever. It just so happens that [[Nunu]] is pretty much the defining jungler for these kinds of things. Not to mention that his jungle sustain is very, very good. Be sure to check him out this season. [[Cho'gath]] may also see a resurgence with his objective and counterjungle focused jungling route. The buffs on PBE which halves [[Feast]]'s cooldown when it kills a minion or monster definitely encourage this type of play. I also fell that [[Kha'zix]] may also have a nice spot in the new jungle. Isolation damage is great for clearing dragon. [[Pantheon]] is another one. He has a very unique niche in that he can actually solo dragon with clever maneuvers and usage of his abilities. Other ones are [[Fiddlesticks]] and [[Warwick]] with their amazing sustain. I feel that [[Rammus]] may falter a bit with these new changes. Tank junglers as a whole are having huge issues in the jungle as it usually is there first clear that's the weakest, and these monsters kick your ass in the first clear.[/quote]

[quote=Vaan99]Ranger's Trailblazer is too good to pass on most champions, 15 seconds reduced cd on smite makes smite on 45 s cd, similar to old smite. Small camps have respawn timers raised to 100 seconds. I'd argue that trailblazer is even better for counterjungling than poacher's knife, having on mind that camps don't respawn so often, you are screwed in your own jungle with 60 seconds smite with poacher's. Stalker's blade does too little damage, it does a little bit more damage than skirmisher, but with bad side effects, comparing 2 seconds slow versus 20% damage reduction and bonus damage to hit, it's really obvious that stalker's item is unfavourable purchase. Can't wait to find some jungler that do better in new jungle than expected.[/quote]