[14.2] Control Your Subjects
Build Guide By fashido
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68,490
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20
7
68,490
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14
Comments
Hwei Build Guide By fashido
68,490
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14
Comments
Hwei Build Guide By fashido
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W max is a big mistake, especially as a support since you do need your E cd. You do your passive proc with 2 abilities - Q + E (or W+E) and you want to proc it as much as possible. Also you need CC to peel for yourself or your team and W max is bad. W shield is almost never used, W+Q is super powerful but it doesn't justify having more cd on your CC abilities. Always max E after W, especially when patch 14.2 comes.
Runes - hwei uses A LOT of mana, and since you're a support, you're supposed to hit 2 abilities for the hwei pick to be justified over someone like vel'koz. W+E is really hard to use on support since you don't always want to touch the wave and proccing it of enemy supp/adc can be very risky sometimes.
So ditch the domination secondary and get manaflow band and Gathering storm. Gathering Storm is really good on hwei for a couple of reasons - hwei early game is okay, but his late game is really bad. You have super long CDs for a mage champ and every other mage is better than you late game. So this rune can compensate for that and you DO want to one shot or do a lot of dmg.
Also always pick Cosmic Insight. IT IS A CRIME to be picking time warp tonic over Cosmic Insight.
W+Q is often used to relocate, that's one of the biggest strengths I've found on Hwei - the ability to quickly move between objectives together with other people. You use it to catch people, to run away and etc. It is very rarely used in kiting since you want to use W+E for more dmg.
AS A GENERAL PLAYSTYLE FOR HWEI - Punish mistakes.
See enemy supp go to ward or take a ward - punish them.
See enemy adc overextend to trade - punish them.
See an opportunity to get in a fight - go for it.
See a team taking drake/baron and you're alone but have vision around the objective - go and use QE + EE + R.
You have to be always moving and looking for opportunities. Especially in low elo people make a lot of mistakes and you can play hwei to punish them. Since DO DMG, CC, Mobility you can punish people safely ALONE. A CC support cant do more than cc, but with hwei you can do it all alone.
Almost every game IM MVP or ACE because that's what I do. I see someone making a mistake and I go punish him. People still don't know Hwei's limits so abuse them. This way you can quickly snowball and be able to go 1v9.
You can also look at my replays - I really haven't played ranked in 2 years, haven't touched hwei much, just hit mastery 7 in ranked, but having a 71% winrate and being MVP in almost game shows this champ can be busted in low elo.
Your role is to control, delete, punish. ALWAYS MOVE AROUND THE MAP.
If you want to try out Hwei ADC, it is best to play it with a duo SUPP and double supp item. Leona is a great matchup since it is often hard to hit his cc and you can easily get doved. There's many CC supports, but leona is great because she doesn't move them with her cc (Hooks). Many times have I missed ult or combos because someone hooked them or used Thresh E to move them. Plus you can tell your teammate to go for vision of the enemy or stun them so you can WE + QW.
And speaking of QW, using WQ to chase someone + QW is great. Always go for it. Don't play with locked camera, you will lose with hwei. His QW gives me multiple kills every game since people don't expect it or don't respect it. It's strong, does a lot of dmg and is really good with stormsurge and shadowflame. Hitting QW is one of the hardest parts of Hwei but if you master it, its super powerful.
I've missed a lot of things since Hwei is a really complex champ but I hope I can help a bit.
Too lazy to make a guide of my own.
(I have only 70% winrate because we tried some supp + hwei combos, but nothing worked as good as Hwei + Leona. ALSO GHOST IS INCREDIBLY STRONG ON HWEI BECAUSE OF THE POINTS IVE MADE. I OFTEN USE GHOSTS WAY BEFORE I REACH SOMETHING JUST TO SPEED MYSELF UP, YOU NEED TO BE QUICK TO JOIN FIGHTS OR PUNISH PEOPLE WITH YOUR COMBOS. HWEI DOES A LOT OF DMG WITH JUST TWO ABILITIES SO YOU WANT TO GHOST AND PUNISH PEOPLE GOING SOMEWHERE. I ALMOST ALWAYS USE EE IN MY COMBOS AS ITS ALMOST INSTANT AND EASY TO HIT. AS AN ADC ABOVE A CERTAIN POINT I ALWAYS USE WE + QE + EE TO CLEAR WAVES SO I CAN MOVE AROUND THE MAP AND ROAM. I VERY RARELY STAY ON BOT AFTER 10 MINUTES. YOU ALSO WANT TO HIT QE ON WAVES AND TRY TO EE ENEMY ADC OR SUPP INTO THE QE, MOST PEOPLE DONT EXPECT IT AND IT EASILY PROCS YOUR PASSIVE.
EW IS REALLY HARD TO HIT BUT IT IS SUPER USEFUL IN CERTAIN BUT RARE SITUATIONS - ZONING ADCS UNDER TOWER, ZONING PATHS TO OBJECTIVES, GIVING VISION BEFORE YOU WARD ETC. YOU CAN USE IT ON YOURSELF WHEN SOMEONE TRIES TO JUMP ON YOU AND YOU'RE NOT COMFORTABLE YOU WILL HIT EQ (FOR EXAMPLE ON MASTER YI OR ZED) IT IS A VERY GOOD ZONING TOOL BUT YOU WILL USE IT RARELY AND IT TAKES A LOT OF PRACTICE TO KNOW WHEN YOU CAN HIT IT SINCE ITS THE EASIEST ABILITY TO DODGE IN YOUR KIT.
ALSO LATE GAME WHENEVER YOU HIT YOUR ULT ALWAYS, ALWAYS TRY TO HIT QW WHEN YOU HAVE IT OFF CD ON THE ULTED TARGET WHEN THEY'RE SLOWED - ITS ALMOST UNMISSABLE AND YOU WILL BE SUPRISED HOW OFTEN PEOPLE SURVIVE YOUR ULT WHEN IT LOOKS LIKE THEY ARE GOING TO DIE, IT'S A MISTAKE TO NOT USE IT MOST OF THE TIME.
SUPP ITEM IS ALSO GREAT WHEN YOU MOVE AROUND AS YOU CAN PLACE WARDS AND CAN BE MORE AGRESSIVE WITH HWEI WHEN YOUR SUPP CANT OR DOESNT PUT ENOUGH VISION. ABUSING WARDS AND CHOKE POINTS ON THE MAP IS SUPER STRONG.)
There's a lot of better Hweis than me in the game. But if you're low elo, preferably below diamond 4 you can look at my op.gg and get replays to see how people play against hwei and how you can abuse them. You want to play aggressively
https://www.op.gg/summoners/euw/Fenroll-1506
I suck at csing with this champ and the leona is my gf and we struggle to coordinate with the CS in voice chat so ignore that please xc.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/17Qmor3jhCltp4mcw-KIadZVLQ3Qnxyxg?usp=sharing
And three recent replays that can show some of what I'm talking about.
W max is also noted to be preferential, but I'm once again left confused. You're saying W max is a big mistake, but then you go on to say how powerful WQ is, and how you should "always max E after W". It's indecipherable which side you're for.
As for runes, don't take it literally. You can mix and match just about any of the rune pages together, as with any champion, really. I just personally like domination secondary - I mean, after all, we are talking about maximising damage (Cheap Shot), and a shorter ult CD feels great on him. Hwei is also a mid-late bloomer - a point in the game at which his mana issues have pretty much subsided.
Again, runes are preferential. Time Warp Tonic and Cosmic Insight honestly both achieve the same thing on Hwei. You can turn trades/fights with Time Warp Tonic but TWT + Biscuit Delivery is mainly focused on his early-game laning, especially around his mana issues, which you've already agreed are noticeable.
Overall, I think E should be used like an Ezreal's E would be; you should only use it in part of a combo, when you know you don't need the disengage, else, you should have it saved. W max proves (in my opinion) to be more efficient, since WE benefits from more mana restore, but also has the same scalings as his E Subject (it has 5 flat damage extra, and the same 60% across all 3 procs).
Your general playstyle also coincides with mine - I don't know if you read the synergies/threats part. I talk about consistently punishing mistakes such as overextending, and the whole guide is about controlling space (mainly in the notes).
Yes, I agree Ghost is incredibly strong on Hwei! (That's why it has been a spell option since my guide has been published).
Thank you for the comment, but I am left a little confused. My main discrepancy is the fact you labelled my guide "not it", then - to some degree - went on to agree with the majority of the guide, from what I can see. The only thing I'd outright disagree with from your comment is you saying that you don't want to be touching the wave, or using WE on it when you can. This, I explicitly reject. Hwei, as a caster, wants to be pushing in the wave so that the enemy are tight for catching it, since both ADC and Support will benefit from the tempo of this; you buy yourself a lot of time to be casting at them behind a wave, while they're struggling to secure cs. This pairs well with, like you said, zoning them under tower with your EW, making it an impossibly annoying lane for them.
I checked out your op.gg, and you're using "my" #1 (DPS Control) full build every game. I am now even more confused. Obviously, I don't claim this build as my original, but you get what I mean.
I mean E max IS more important than W Max. Yes WQ is very powerful, but you don't roam a lot with supp/adc hwei in the early game with WQ since it uses a lot of mana. WE restores mana, but the overall mana cost of the 3 spells (With WW being so bad) you can't use WQ so often in laning phase.
Remember, you have 2 damaging abilities in your kit (excluding WE), so you do NEED to max E after Q. It improves dmg by a lot and CC which when you play support is usually the first thing you want to max, but you're a poke/cc mage so poke>>mage>>other utility.
That means that WE restores less mana. And yes TWT + Biscuit Delivery can be used in trades/fights but it's usually the suprise/bait part that's useful. This is generally the first time I've seen this combo outside top lane and especially in a mage champ. Sacrificing Cosmic Insight - one of the BEST runes for your biscuits to activate faster is honestly not worth it. Summoner spell haste and item spell haste (stormsurge and supp item) is way way stronger.
The situations where TMT can help or change the situation of a fight are incredibly rare in botlane.
For your domination runes, cheap shot is good, but Hwei ultimate is rather lacking. IT looks big, looks good but is easy to miss, you need to set up it and honestly it doesn't do much. This is something a lot of Hwei mains complain about - his ult being too weak. Manaflow band does a lot for Hwei mana issues, I always try to proc it on the river bushes to get 25 mana before laning phase. Also Gathering Storm, Scorch, Transcendence can be picked depending on your playstyle. I personally dont like scorch on Hwei since I usually try to harass a lot under tower and dive the enemy or go speed towards the middle of the first two towers so I take aggro from tower a lot.
You've said in your post to not use E and try to save it but you're picking cheap shot, so it's gonna activate less often. Looks like for you trans might be more useful this way.
Overall my issues are with the W max over E (you're letting go of 70 to 230 damage scaling and more cc duration which is incredibly strong to have ONLY 20 more mana restore on max WE . WQ has a good scaling but not enough to justify it. AND ALSO W CD goes from 18 to 16 seconds on max rank while E goes from 15 to 11. Way more reason to max E after Q). WE damage is okay but you often prefer to use WQ. I rarely use WE with my combos since I try to save WQ to leave but still, just look at the wiki for Hwei and look at the scaling of his abilities.
One last note - if you're running biscuits on hwei you don't really have to max WE for that 20 mana since if you use it on waves and get all 3 hits you're very rarely gonna have no mana. I usually spam really hard my abilities in laning phase and there's games where I leave the laning phase without using my cookies. And for malignence I can't break my habit of using E or Q first and then ult to use ult first so the item can be more useful than ludens or seraph. It does sound like a good item but my experience with it is not good (my own fault) but I've heard other people complaing about the item being weak too. (Honestly no idea)
Also E is gonna get buffed heavily next patch so you do want that also.
As for ghost you should recommend it as the primary rune. Exhaust is used mainly against assasins to remove their burst, so it's more situational.
For items cryptobloom is weird, it doesn't do much dmg (10% magic pen is a huge loss and you then build it into shadowflame?). If you want antiMR just go liandry and void staff. And depending on what comp they have you can pick your mana item.
And your void staff is on space control, you've kinda mixed them up. Honestly if I want to play a support hwei if somebody is doing great and I wanna let them carry I go cosmic drive. It helps a lot to be in the fight and be able to play around having more abilities casted while not dying than bursting someone (also great item against a fighter focused team) but you did recommend it so it's okay.
Don't forget Banshee and Zhonya. Banshee is OP but has an awful build path so try to get it only if you're ahead. Zhonya is great even for supp Hwei if they try to waste CDs on you.
In the last bit you've said that you don't see Hwei as a burst mage but you contradict yourself. He can do a lot of damage, but often it is harder to be able to do that since your QQ and EE range (your most used combo) has a really short range. But when you do that they just die. I two shot mid to late game almost every enemy squishy. And Hwei is also good against fighters and tanks because of max hp dmg and his WQ ms + EQ fear.
Honestly I'm happy that people try to play Hwei in low elo because he isn't hard. He is complex but he's one of the easiest mages in league. You have so many options all the time and when you know what to do it becomes like a bot game. Also in Low Elo if you're even decent on him I don't see how you can't have over 60% winrate as most people have no idea how to play against him.
Really easy champ when you get the hang of him and is actually kinda strong. Really hope you can find success in him and it's interesting how a lot of players have different ideas about him. It will take time to really grasp what's his exact role and playstyle that most people should focus on.
"Sacrificing Cosmic Insight" when, in reality, I don't find myself using my summ spells that much tbh. Ignite kinda becomes useless on him late game, and he's not flash *dependent* so. I think the added early pressure and sustain far outweighs the ability to do something that adds no value to your role.
Hwei's ult is also not lacking at all. It is a large range with the most control in the game, being able to slow a full team with Rylai's scepter, proccing multiple passives, after pulling them in together with EE is a lot of stacked AOE. His ult is not weak at all, and having it on a shorter CD feels great.
Also, I didn't say don't use E *period*. What I said was you *shouldn't* use E, if you can't guarantee a disengage if things take a bad turn, like you would with an Ezreal E. You wouldn't expect an Ezreal to E in every chance he got, just because it's extra damage. Same goes for Hwei.
Again, like the runes, the summoner spells are mix and match. I'm showing you what's viable, it's up to you to choose what works best for you, I'm just showing you the direction to head in. Exhaust, flash, ignite, and ghost are all viable spells - you can choose what you find best.
Additionally, W scales pretty similarly to E, only falling off by 35 flat at Level 5. The difference is unnoticed.
Cryptbloom is also 30% Magic Pen, and I gave the specific reason for Cryptbloom in the notes. Liandry isn't very good on Hwei this patch, because it lacks the stats he scales well with imo.
Yes, Void Staff is on space control because it's a good anti-squishy AND anti-tank item since the **Space Control** items are Malignance and Rylai's...
Also Hwei is a very mana hungry champion and playing it support with Cryptobloom first item that gives 0 mana and not having manaflow band will mean that you will use your abilities 5 times and be forced to somehow hit WE of enemy champs that early game destroy you in 2 seconds. Also rabadon is very hard to buy when playing support since you have almost 0 gold income.
Flashing once every 5 minutes to hit CC is so "basic", I agree - it's also pointless. So much happens within those 5 minutes that I really don't see how flashing once every 5 minutes (when in reality, you aren't even flashing every 5 minutes, because you don't flash the second it comes off cd) changes that much. On the other hand, guaranteeing myself instant sustains (health AND mana) in the middle of an early crucial trade does indeed change a lot, yes.
Hwei is mana hungry EARLY. You can still rush Cryptobloom if you want, or build something like Luden's into Cryptobloom. It is still a strong item that he uses well. Again, you keep bringing up runes. You can see the enemy comp and your own comp before the game starts! If you think it's a Cryptobloom game, take Manaflow! The runes are OPTIONAL, not you HAVE to take domination secondary if you have first strike. I can't keep repeating this. You can also WE the wave, because, like I said before, Hwei wants the wave to be pushed in so that they don't have a wave to block your abilities, but you have a wave to block theirs.
The whole game and every 1v1 in League has always been revolved around flash since the game came out??? Why are you baiting me into the most weird replies in mobafire xd, I thought you were serious until now haha
If I weren't serious, why would I spend time replying to every single point you make? If you don't like adverse opinions, I wouldn't leave comments, if I were you.