Shaco Build Guide : [25.17] Shaco Support Guide (70%wr 2.8Mil Sup OTP)

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thank you so much for ur build it's fantastic i use it for the last month and i love it can you tell me why u don't think sometimes if we face like 2 tanky is not better to go liandry and sometimes also shadow flame to make more boxes dmg feel free to write your thought i would love to hear from you especially with ur mathematic explanation ^^ thank you buddy

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Im going to assume you mean double burn with shadowflame as third item as thats the most common build for ap shaco support against tanks at 30 mins into the game, i think double burn is still a viable option as it works for most ap shaco sups, but i myself believe that ap shaco support isnt supposed to be a tank killer, you will be trading your vision/utility/area control for slightly more damage onto a tank when a supports job isnt to kill the tank, i think of it like having more vision and cc through more boxes will be able to keep your tank killers alive longer to deal more damage then you ever would, just by simply seeing flanks and giving them fallback options on a seige is more valuable in my opinion then a support dealing slightly more damage to a tank.
Now for the fun part, maths.

(Build: Zak'zak, Blackfire Torch, Liandrys, Shadowflame)
(30 Min Gathering Storm, running the same runes as in my guide)
Gold Cost: 9,000g. (not accounting for sup items 400g cost)
Tank Stats 6000hp, 150mr. Tank Dmg: Box = 1354 E = 511. Clone Dmg: 2831.
Squishy Stats: 2900hp 70mr. Squishy Dmg: Box = 1676, E = 611. Clone Dmg:4323.
(pls note that for the clone dmg against the squishy target test shadowflame was ticking for around the last third of the Damage duration while the target dummy was at 0hp, so its slightly skewed with more damage, the other dmg tests are not skewed with extra damage)
Number of Boxes: 7. Clone CD: 57.97.
Overall Damage Potential (box dmg x no of boxes) = Tank: 9,478 Squishy: 11,732

(Build: Zak'zak, Dark Seal 0 stacks, Blackfire Torch, Horizon, Crpytbloom)
(30min Gathering Storm, running the same runes as in my guide)
Gold Cost: 8,950g. (not accounting for sup items 400g cost)
Tank Stats 6000hp, 150mr. Tank Dmg: Box = 1087, E = 420. Clone Dmg: 2752.
Squishy Stats 2900hp 70mr. Squishy Dmg: Box = 1433 E = 515. Clone Dmg: 3724.
Number of Boxes: 10. Clone CD: 43.27
Overall Damage Potential (box dmg x no of boxes) = Tank: 10,870 Squishy: 14,330

(i should note, that i say overall damage potential, i only mean for the boxes, as there is no damage potential for E and clone, only set raw damage, whereas boxes have stored damage potential based on the number of them set)
So when comparing my build to the double burn with shadowflame at that stage in the game, as i usually get my 3rd item around 28mins as shaco sup, which is why i tested with 30 min gathering storm, (with 350g 0 stack dark seal to account for the gold cost of the double burn build, and an added 200hp advantage (in favor of the liandrys builds %hp dmg, along with the tank having 6000hp for liandrys %hp dmg) for the on both tests for the 200hp that liandrys gives, as lvl 18 shaco only has 2579hp + 50hp from dark seal, so all my other tests in the past ive rounded that up to 2700hp. along with the 900g advantage from not building boots that my build has.). my build actually deals more damage to tanks through box damage potential with slightly less E damage. so both are around equal damage wise id say, but you need to take into account the added boxes CC/vision/area control value that my build gives.
It was fun comparing the two as i like doing the maths and testing it out in practice tool in my spare time to find out the most optimal build for certain scenarios.
I might do another full build damage comparison to the meta ap shaco support build as my last one where i compared mine to rolocyns build is outdated as they changed their guides build to something similar to mine after we discussed it, will probably add a section for that between the warning/advice and playstyle sections at the bottom of my guide in my next update to show just how hard my build smokes the meta shaco build lategame. (if i remember to do it/have the motivation as it takes like an hour of testing to get the stats lol)
Thanks for your comment and i hope my explanation helped.

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thank you so much and i appreciate ur hardworking and yes i understand ur right ^^

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New patch, new shaco nerf, minus 1 sec cooldown on Q, but that doesnt really affect this build much since its haste maxing, releasing a new version of my core build (still in LATE STAGE testing, it does work and is explained why) that might actually make shaco support stronger then pre-nerf lol. Enjoy Clowns.

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Updated to restructure the meme builds into a seperate guide section as i felt it was cluttered, and added a link to a compilation of my best plays from like 10 months ago when i last made one (bottom of the playstyle section), in case anyone wanted some examples of whats possible when you push ap shaco support to its limits, this is gonna be the last update until the next patch unless i think of something else to add.

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oh nice, i won the skin raffle for this month

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great)

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Are you planning on adding some more generall advice about shacos playstyle and mechanics (like what the objective is when playing ap shaco support or what to do in early/mid/lategame and what to do in teamfights)in the future? Im asking caus since ur guide came out mine became kinda obsolete.(which im completly fine with your guide is great and im having trouble finding time do write anything)but i was planning on covering more generall advice(like what i mention above) but in case you wanted to cover that or something similar I dont think id be adding any value in which case I think could just archive my guide (I anyway only wrote my guide because there wasn´t a decent or good guide at that time (now there is) but like I said I havent really been able to add anything valueable since i first wrote my guide so i really wouldn`t mind archiveing mine).

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thats kind of a hard thing to do, and ive been avoiding it, because this style of shaco support has the off meta tag for a reason, its true strength is completely different from the meta shaco support, which is kinda why i think u should keep your guide, as it offers a different perspective that doesnt completely crack open the views on how to build shaco like mine, almost no one knows my playstyle as its really complex and ive been putting off adding it in because it would be like 20k characters to explain it all, for people new to shaco support i would honestly recommend your build instead of mine, mine can only be pushed to its limits by shaco players with a LOT of mastery that know the champs limits, so i probably wont be adding things that teach beginner shacos how to play, so i really think your guide will fill the void of what mine doesnt teach, and a different perspective on how to play shaco is always a good thing, like what happened with the boots stuff before, i dont have the perspective of shaco needing boots to survive stuff and think its s scam, but other people do need them. so pls keep your guide up, and ill probably be adding a part to mine that says to go check out your guide when i update it soon-ish. (im gonna have to add so much to mine if im gonna include the meme builds and fully explain my playstyle... pain...)

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Well, I'm on it, but I'm also really interested in an explanation of your playstyle in the future, but obviously don't stress yourself. And besides building boots, I think your build and runes are just all around the best there is, even with a more aggressive playstyle like mine, simply because of the additional safety of having your Q more often and being able to place more boxes in a short period of time to protect yourself. Also your E is getting more execute damage. But yeah, with boots the build does lose out on a lot of its potential, but that is just the difference in playstyle, but in my opinion it's still better than the double burn build.

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glad u think so highly of it, im still working on it 8 hours later lol, currently got the runes and items in, done the notes on the runes, halfway through the notes on the items, will probs me take another day as and ill finish the playstyle part tommorow as its already 11pm for me, will publish what ive got done so far now though in case u wanted to see it and give any feedback

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The only thing I would have done differently is that, as these are meme builds and not necessarily actual builds people should seriously run (at least not all of them). I would have made a second champion build section for the meme builds. So there is just a clearer distinction between the serious build and the meme builds. But I don't think that matters too much honestly. Besides that, I really appreciate that you put so much effort into the notes of these builds, even though they're just meme builds. Also, isn't Cyclosword a pretty good item on AD Shaco support because of the slow?

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glad u commented, because im legit almost done with the next update (will be dropping in the next 30 mins id say), and yea, ive been debating if i want to delete the meme builds because it just clutters the guide a bit, and i have no clue how to split it into a different champion build section, might make a new guide if people still want the meme builds if i do end up deleting them. also, yea cyclosword was the item i used with the last jack of all trades, but since then umbral got a buff for 5 more ad and 100g less cost, umbral is really strong because of its gold cost and the gold u get from the wards, plus its buildpath feels a lot smoother as you dont have to save for a pickaxe, dirk is really good compared to a brutalizer as you get 5 more lethality, and the sooner you get the jack of all trades online the better, it comes out to the same if not more damage, and since slows dont stack and you would most likely have exhaust ready for an all in, i thought it might not be as worth, it can be swapped for cyclosword though and i might add that in as an option if i keep the meme builds. also just to ask, can i link your guide? Edit: the update with the playstyle is dropping now, lemme know if u want me to take the link out, im assuming its fine since u linked mine.

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I tried putting in a picture, but when you make your guide, under basic setup, or the first page when you make a new one, you have to choose your champ. Just pick Shaco a second time, and you get a second build section. Hope this helps.

And yes, I don't care that you linked mine. Sorry for not asking you before linking your guide. I hope you're fine with it, mb.

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ah, thank you, ill update it again tomorrow with the separate sections as its already past midnight for me and i need sleep after editing it for like 7 hours, and dw, i was fine with u linking it.

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i wonder if anyone would be interested in me including my custom made meme builds that i use for fun sometimes into this guide, aka ad, gold generator, debuff tank, enchanter

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Yeah for sure

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aight, ill work on it either today or when the new patch comes out so i dont have to update it twice (im really confused why youve been downvoted btw, lemme fix that with an upvote)

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I loved your Shaco guide. Unfortunately, the current version is poor... Shaco is very slow and I'm doing less damage than before. A much better guide right now is "How to make Adc's disappear" by Rolocyn

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Ok.. thats very rude to say that theirs is a much better guide then mine. and the 'doing less damage' is just straight lying and i can disprove that with maths: Overall dmg potential = box dmg x number of boxes. My build: Box dmg:1991 Number of boxes controlled:14. 1991 x 14 = 27874 overall dmg potential. Their build: box dmg:2229 Boxes controlled:12. 2229 x 12 = 26748. my builds 27874 beats 26748 and for just 500 gold more, and if the mejais has full stacks as i tested it with 0 stacks, then that skyrockets to 40482 overall box damage to beat that builds 26748 overall box damage, swap mejais for malignance and its 39654 with a stronger clone bomb by an insane amount of dmg from malignance, plus the added utility and vision control/area control of controlling more boxes at once makes this build even more useful on top of just damage. (all tested against 2500 hp 70 mr (shacos lvl 18 stats) training dummy at 30 mins for gathering storm, with blue buff and elixir of sorcery) so you coming in here with 0 knowledge just because it 'felt weak' to you and promoting another guide without knowing what youre talking about, is extremely rude, youve missed the point of my guide entirely. (their build is still quite good and better then the meta shaco builds though)

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Hey, I’m really sorry if what I said came off as rude — that honestly wasn’t my intention at all. I guess it’s hard to explain my point of view in just one sentence 😘. I totally agree with the potential of your guide and the obvious damage advantage. But I wasn’t talking about numbers or math here — I meant pure gameplay. Shaco without boots feels slow, has a harder time chasing enemies, and dies more if you try to play aggressively. To fully benefit from your build, you kinda need 40-minute games and tons of gold. But if your team is losing, it becomes hard to even complete the build (too expensive). So yeah — I really liked your previous guide and I appreciate this one too, but I wouldn’t go for it if I wanted to play more aggressively. If you like staying in the back and spamming W — you’ve got tons of damage and low cooldowns, great build. But if you prefer trolling around, invading enemy jungle, roaming, playing risky, stealing kills... then I’d recommend something else than yours.

Anyway, no hard feelings — different styles for different players 😊. Thanks for putting the time into the guide!

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Yess i think he is an unplayable Champion, so it goes, you can imagine using in arena or jungling at ARAM? not at all, tell my one reasonable reason to stag aggressvly all in jung with this no way hack stone, all power suppu +500 heart or doing?
NOTTHING ATT ALL
jkash hat or something?

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if you need boots to function on shaco then buy them, just take out mejais as the final item, too expensive? by 500 gold? its even cheaper then normal builds if you just hold dark seal instead of upgrading it practically giving you almost an items worth of stats at full stacks for 350g, and this build doesnt even struggle when behind as its buildpath is a lot better as you get the 20 haste from cryptbloom for only 1700g, making you hit your haste softcap 1300g cheaper, i dont get it, you get your full items faster, you come online faster, you hit your haste softcap faster, you have superior damage, you get infinitely stronger damage by setting up boxes around a single area instead of running around the map with 0 macro which is the point of this builds playstyle, you have insanely more utility/area control/vision control... yet im getting downvoted.. (i wasnt even the one that downvoted you btw) yea i give up, im archiving this build in a few days as im not putting up with this again, only remade this guide to share with people that add me and wanted to know my builds and tech

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I would ask you not to archive your build. Ive been useing your build and runes and honestly its better than the build i recomend in my guide to be fair the only diffrents is the second item (btw i really dont like Liandry´s the stats it gives are ****)and boots. But i think the whole thing about boots is just a question of skill they make shaco a lot easier at least for me but are a waste of gold if you play shaco perfectly(as the area control mage that he is not an ap-assasin). And about the runes precision as a secondary is a lot better. Domination doesn´t add any sicnificant damage and the ult haste doesn´t make a diffrent´s (i really need to update my guide tbh). also i am dissapointed that i havn´t thought of useing tp allthough i think in some matches exhaust+ignite is actully better. anyway incase you take it done i apreciate that you posted it. it has helped at least me a lot. Which is why i also promoted your guide in my guide. I now just have to update the promotion. when i wrote the last update i havent used ur guide to much.

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im glad that youre enjoying the build, and yea i agree, i really dont like liandrys because of its health (hp is bad on shaco) and its low ap with no haste (two of the most vital stats on shaco), and i guess i hadnt really thought of boots like that, from my point of view i just started questioning their value and found them to be useless, but i guess for a lot of people they need the movespeed for survival and responding to macro instead of making macro plays, also i agree that exhaust is better in some matchups, but i still use the tp tech in those cases, i just swap ign for exhaust instead, usually if im against an extremely high dps lane like a draven/jhin & brand, or if they have a zed in a bad matchup thats most likely going to roam bot. the only times i really run ign exhaust together is if im running ad, which i rarely do nowdays, but i still think that ign exhaust together is a viable choice if people prefer it. also thanks for promoting my guide, i didnt scroll down far enough to see it when i checked yours, i appreciate it. i guess youve changed my mind and ill keep this one updated, thanks for your kind words.

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Thanks a lot to both of you for all the work and effort you’ve put in. It was really great to read through this whole exchange — instead of drama, we got an actual useful discussion and even some collaboration. I’m really glad the guide won’t be archived — it would’ve been a huge loss, honestly. Super happy to hear it’ll keep getting updates. I’m sure I’m not the only one who’ll benefit from it! 🙌

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Rebuilt this guide that i previously deleted like 6 months ago, because people wanted to know my shaco support tech, so i figured id make this again to easily share it, lets see if this will also be the highest rated shaco support guide as it once was

[25.17] Shaco Support Guide (70%wr 2.8Mil Sup OTP)

[25.17] Shaco Support Guide (70%wr 2.8Mil Sup OTP)

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