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I think especially with the recent buffs to Cinderhulk and its parts it's just too good to pass up on Mao. And to be honest I never even bothered with Runic Echoes. If ahead, I just get Liandry's and/or Iceborn Gauntlet. In my opinion most of the annoyance that is Maokai comes from his insane tankiness and CC.
And I think that's part of why the AP-heavy support style has such a low win rate. On the other hand he's too mana-hungry with maxed E to be able to just go Relic Shield. When I found myself in the rare situation of supporting with him in the past, I just left E on one point and used it to check bushes, nothing more. He can work well as a peel/counter-engage tool against other tanky supports and immobile ADCs though.
The AP build might work fine in lane, where you can poke safely, but in the late game you will get ****ed when you don't have time to setup bushes or fail to disengage. It can work, if you build your team around it, elsewise it's just too risky imo.
Oh and honestly you shouldn't get both Frozen Heart and Iceborn Gauntlet. It's overkill on CDR and mana and doesn't synergize with that juicy Cinderhulk passive. One of those two + spirit visage is enough, if you want to go ham on CDR, which is in my view his most important offensive stat. I personally run 6x scaling CDR glyphs to cap out late game.
Are you that scaling runes are the right choice in the current short game meta? I heard most pros are giving the advice to pick flat runes in a blind matchup, and to only take scaling MR if you know you are against an AD lane Opponent.
1: The decision between Flat and Scaling runes is a personal preference. Do you want the immediate stats that come with Flat runes or the benefit of Scaling Runes that surpass flat runes at level 10.In my experience, I prefer scaling runes. I have almost never had a game that was so short and I lost so hard that I wish I had used flat runes instead. Also IMO flat runes put me in the mindset that I have to "get things going" by level 9 or these runes don't pay off whereas if I take scaling runes I feel I have the flexibility to play the game different depending on the situation.
2: Which pros are you referring to? When I take a look at the latest ProBuilds records a variety of Pros from different regions use wildly different sets of runes, both flat and scaling runes of Armor, Health, Magic Resist, and AP.
3: Take Scaling Mr if into an AD opponent? Think this is a typo so not sure what you are trying to say here.
Hope these comments help you understand my thought process, even in the face of a "short game meta", to be honest though the current meta doesn't feel that much faster than previous metas.
Doesn't flat magic pen push magic resist into the negatives if the opponent (minions too?) have less MR than you got MPen? I think I read this about Amumu since he's often maxing the MPen and MR-reduction in his damage builds. I don't know if this is different from minions, but if it is the same rules it increases the damage minions take to above the damage your abilities produce.
Magic Penetration runes, and sorceror's Shoes do not help you kill minions (I just tested this with going into a custom game and using Maokai's W on a lane minion before and after I bought Sorcer's shoes). The only "anti magic resist" tactic that seems to be increasing any damage done to minions is Abyssal Scepter, which for reasons I don't understand is acting like a sunfire cape on the minions. I believe Riot is removing this functionality in a future mage update. Bottom line though: magic penetration doesn't help you against minions.
Since minions don't have magic resistance or armor, magic penetration is completely ineffective in killing them. Need to test how much of an effect loosing AP would have on waveclear
Doesn't flat magic pen push magic resist into the negatives if the opponent (minions too?) have less MR than you got MPen? I think I read this about Amumu since he's often maxing the MPen and MR-reduction in his damage builds. I don't know if this is different from minions, but if it is the same rules it increases the damage minions take to above the damage your abilities produce.
I usuaally play Maokai with AS Quints (13,5%) and Magicpen-Marks (7,8). I simply rate the 7.8 magicpen higher than the 14,85 AP. The base-dmg is really strong.
Your Opinion on that?
I like the part of item choices. I didn't know why all players dramatically stopped buying Rod of Ages and replaced it with Righteous Glory, but now that I have read you guide I know why xD. Also, I didn't realize that after the nerf to Randuin, it isn't an essential item for Maokai anymore.
Thanks for the guide, it helped me a lot too.
You should add a section for "matchtups", because there aren't good, complete and updated guides about that.
Btw, I have one question: if I am the only initiator of my team, then who should I put on the Righteous Glory's active?
And sorry if I have any kind of spelling or/and gramatical mistake, because english is not my first language.
Thanks for the input. The language on your question is a little confusing, but if you mean "If I am the only initiator then who and when do I use my righteous glory active on". The when is situational, but I would almost always go for one of the squishy carries. Kill one of them right off the bat, or if the team is in retreat just use it to catch up to the straggler, kill him and then take an objective on the map.