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1) what is the first 3 core its that should I start buying after im getting tear of goddess ?
i know its not every game the same 3 but usually what is the first 3 items and what the order to buy them i mean what first second and third ?
2)I really dont know what do againts champs like Katarina,Zed,Talon,*Ahri*, and champs like that with high moblity that its really hard to land Q and than E, most of the early game againts those champs im under turret and losing alot of minions, what should I do ?
3) I saw in the website probuilds and nobody bought ROA, why is that ?
i think thats for now :)
First off, how do I win vs hard lock down champions like Vi? I played a game where I got completely smashed vs a Vi, was in lane vs Ahri and did quite well but kept getting ganked which let to a horrible score, felt useless.
Side question: Is there any time that building zhonyas is viable, I've seen a lot of challenger/pro players building it but you don't seem to recommend it, thoughts?
Also, when is it viable to take Stormraider's Surge instead of Thunderlord's/DFT?
Second, I've read all about the Zed matchup but it still feels really hard vs a good Zed especially with barrier and not exhaust. I played against a pretty high mastery one and he half hp me with w,q,e and followed it up with a ult and constantly back stepped my ult. I felt crushed after that game since it should be easier.
Thirdly, I've now played 52 games with a winrate of 73.1% in gold-plat elo, I seem to be getting the hang over the playstyle and how to hard carry/not lose lane but I'd love some tips or coaching if you would do that or if you just got a stream that I could learn from, would be a great help. Thanks for the great guide mate! :) (My account is Afflictionz on EUW if you'd like to take a look :3)
I'll try to reply in order to your questions, and keep it straight forward :)
Your first question is a kind of tough one, since there is no real easy answer. A good Vi can completely trash you, if you make the slightest mistake. Also ahri can be quite hard to deal with, since she has always the all-in potential, with her mobility and E. I have to note, that my build has been a bit late in updates, and there are a few things that can work situationally. In this case if Vi decides to camp you, I do recommend building Zhonyas. The only reason I do not build it if not absolutely necessary, is because it ends up making your kiting lackluster. But if vi / Zed / anyone else can get on you and fck you up, you might as well get it and try to stay grouped. (This is more important now when the lethality got buffed)
The important thing aside from zhonyas, is to try and get vision to prevent the Vi ganks, invest in pinks, and ask for jungle help to keep these hard lockdown junglers down. (Vision + jungle assistance to get 2v2.) Also Remember to drop W down on Vi, if she tries to close the distance before ulting. (Works even if she is already casting her E) If she manages to get a few kills on you, and goes for you more often than not, build Zhonyas after tear and skip ROA. More importantly, play passive. Recognize the hard pressure put down by vi, and simply forfeit the lane more or less. Rather let ahri get a bit more cs, than try to contest and end up as Vi's target. (Unless you see Vi on the map bot / top etc)
Secondly; This matchup got hella lot harder now as the lethality buffs came. This aint any easy matchup anymore, nor is any AD assassin. The way you want to approach this though, is through letting him do the initiative. You want to focus in dodging his Combo, and after that punish. After the shurikens fly out, this is your chance to look for trades. if you land a Q, you can follow up with damage, as his cooldowns are down. If he lands his combo, always care for the shadow swap, be ready to drop the Q on the shadow. I do recommend zhonyas against him (unless you manage to punish him and get ahead), maybe even first full item, or after rylais. In this matchup it is crucial to punish his cooldowns, it is all about them. You need to understand if he's shurikens are down, this is the opportunity where he cannot all in you. All this said though, If he sidesteps your ult, you are toast without zhonyas. (Get it always as 3rd or 4th item even if he's real behind, since the lethality buffs and minor buffs to zed made his damage insane.) Exhaust can be a good choice also, since this allows you to know when he wants to throw his shurikens (when the exhause effect ends), and this means you know when he will be facing you.
Third point; You are definitely getting the hang of things, I can see that. I would recommend you try to focus only on your own performance. The most important thing, is to focus in farming. This is something I still tell myself before games, 'Focus on the farm'. The second point is trading in lane. If the trading is going bad, or you are getting pressured, play more laid back, and focus on the CS. (Always try to trade when the enemy is trying to focus on his own cs). Lastly, focus on wave management. This goes hand-to-hand with farming, and is crucial. Try to keep the wave in good position for yourself, close to your tower, if you are getting hard time in lane. Play back, last hit, and wait for opportunities with your jungler, if you cannot get the upper hand in lane.
4Th sidenote: Try out Stormraiders surge, if you run exhaust especially. This gives you a tiny edge against these mobile assassins. You need the movement speed, when exhaust slows them down and impairs them.
Lastly, Cassio is a champion you get the hang of fully, just by playing. You keep that way up, and look to improve your own combos and understanding how the the enemy champions work and what they want to do, and you will be improving greatly.
Sincerely,
The Blue Cobra, Eune
The Biue Cobra, Euw
TheBlueCobraEUW, Tr
Thanks you for pointing out these things, that I have left un-updated from my guide. I've updated some of these now, and try to keep up with it more as I go. I've been really busy, so there are a few things that have been left behind.
Thank you.
Matchups are always a bit tricky and situational. In this case, the core idea is as follows. You outdps him earlygame, but you run out of mana if you go too ham. If there is no jungle pressure from your side, try to save up your mana, never let it go under 50%. After you hit lvl 5, you wanna back and get your tear as usual. If more gold, buy dark seal aswell. After this, you got a 1 level window to 1v1 him, and maybe get ahead, before he hits 6. After lvl 6, you gotta play really careful.
Keep his shield down, every time. You can still go aggro, but this requires you to expect when he is going to use his ult. So if you see him putting vodlings down, ulti right away. Since ur ulti has cast time, it cancels his ulti-.
And yes, after those items, rush QSS, after that go Liandrys for pressure or the usual build path. Morello as second item is optional in this matchup.
-oluuko123
So I have a few questions because I am trying to learn cass.
1) For runes, i usually like to run a gen. ap rune page or a scaling health scaling ap rune page and I was wondering about your thoughts on how well they would work with cass
2)Y would you partially build the abyssal scepter? That really piques my interest because the first thought that comes to my mind is to finish it asap
3)What do you think of cass vs. the new ryze, and how should one approach ryze as a lane opponent(im asking because your guide says patch 6.12)?
4)what do you reccommend positioning wise, because I'm pretty bad at positioning so having a general idea of where I should be would be helpful
Thanks Alot, overall your guide was really helpful ^_^
-1Indian
I am really sorry for my late reply, I've been really busy with writing my thesis for University. Anyways, let me answer your questions.
1)I've played quite a few games with regular AP page (Flat ap, magic pen, health) and I have to say, it feels quite clunky. It is better for the early trades, but the DPS is lower from lvls 7-18. To conclude, it does work, but I find 20% CDR/18 with move speed or AP better for later.
2)Reasoning here is only, if you are pressured really hard in lane. Your main focus is to farm up, and the MR with catalyst to follow will allow you to make the lane safer for yourself. Abyssal is extremely defensive item, and thus does lower your DPS. This is why you ignore it until you got your CORE up.
3)This is something I have played a bit, and this matchup is really even, and swingy. The new ryze has such a good waveclear, and your linear approach is easy for him to handle now. My advise, try to farm well, wait for jungle interference. And always appreciate his JUNGLER, since they can take you down in no time. Stay safe, farm up, punish if he misses his combo.
4)I will update this part into the guide later, when I have the time to do so. Trying to get some screenshots also to clarify. Mainly, it depends. If you went the tanky route, and they don't have alot of burst, you can be in the sort of frontline. ( NEVER THE FIRST GUY, Unless you are FLASH ULTYING, After this, Back off after 1-2 E's) If they have alot of burst, or they are ahead by long margin, try to stay in the backline, and DPS the tanks / engagers. in this situation save your R - FLASH to re-engage, when they think they won the fight. Timing is crucial.
Thank you for feedback, and yet again, sorry for this really late reply!
My thoughts are mostly on the same line of thought that you have, indeed with taking ghost, you can boost up your kiting potential, especially in the early game. I approve this, and I use this also, quite rarely though. If I'm facing a team that are really tough to kite around, I sometimes find myself taking ghost as secondary. Also against really gank heavy junglers this might be an option. Some examples that I'd consider this is Vi, Olaf, Shyvana(?), etc.
Also occasionally just because their team comp is so elusive, I'd run ghost if my lane matchup allows it. This gives you potential to merely get in a good position to start ulting - or dishing damage. Since positioning is everything, this can be a good option. Just remember to use the ghost for running away, chasing down, or getting into a good position rather than just boosting up the kiting for itself if not needed. The kite with Q is usually enough, so wasting it just for extra move speed when not needed can be crucially wrong.
Thanks for your question, and good points!
1: You mentioned rushing catalyst instead of tear of the goddess, isn't tear something you have to buy straight away to start stacking?
2: I understand that cassiopeia does not really need much cdr, I'm curious as to why you have no actual ap in your runes especially considering this 20% cdr is the only cdr you get. Is the ultimate goal 20% cdr or 30% with abyssal?
3: Is it worth taking 1 solo movement speed quint since the movement amplification is not as substantial as 5 ap for example?
4: Since Cass has built in healing when killing poisoned targets and generally spams her skills so much I really think that vampirism is a hundred percent better than natural talent. Don't you?
5: Finally since cass is a late game champion and thunderlords falls off a little late game is it not better to get deathfire touch to synergize with your poison?
6: Does TDL get proced by Q E OR Q E E ?
Thank you in advance. :)
I'll answer to you're questions in numerical order, so it'll be more easy to read.
1: Tear is optimal to get as a first item. I'm not quite sure if you are referring to the part, when you are being pressured hard on lane, or the general build paths I have at the start of the guide. This might be confusing, but the paths I have on top, include Starting item + First back (Almost always tear + Ruby crystal if possible) and then proceeding with one of the latter ones. The part where I rush catalyst before tear is usually only against something really poke heavy, like Xerath. The stacking part of the tear doesn't matter too much, since you will stack it quite fast, and you will usually be upgrading to Archangels quite late. PREFERABLY Get this first though :)
2: This is something I have been doing alot of theorycrafting on, just to make the Cassiopeia work again after the rework. I have noticed, that with 20-30% CDR you actually can manage just fine, and the last tick of 40 doesn't matter too much. Always try to utilize bluebuff too, which gives you additional 10, making you usually get around 20-30% at lvl 9, depending if you get abyssal early or not. 20% gives you 0.6 - 0.525 s CD on E, which is really close to the old 0.5. Afterwards, nearing lvl 16-18, you'll be having from 30-40% with Blue buff, (0,525 - 0,45s ) This is more than enough to reach the maximum power, since those few tenths of a second barely matter. Ultimate goal is so said to be around 20-30, yes.
3: I would actually not take just one Movement Speed quint instead of 5 ap. If you got only one MS Quint, rather use 10 ap with 1 CDR/18. Although this is situational, I use both books, usually rather MS than the 10 AP. 3% MS is huge, since you cannot buy boots, and it adds up to your kiting and scales. The 10 AP you can get situationally, when kiting is not that hard to do against their teamcomp, and you feel like you can pressure your enemy more with the additional AP. The reasoning why I take this rarely is the fact, that I prioritize more in farming the early levels, and the AP Scaling on E is really poor at early levels.
4: Yes, you are right. I actually use that, and have fixed it in the guide now:)
5: This is also optional, and depends what you play against, and with. I have experimented more on DFT now, and it's strong in certain situations. (Farm lane, you can't kill the enemy, but you also don't need the additional pressure to keep your enemy in line, OR Tanky enemy team +3, or +2 heavy tanks, OR Your team lacks the damage later on, hence you need all the AOE dmg you can get. Otherwise, if you face an enemy, that you HAVE to pressure hard, e.x. Leblanc, Viktor, Fizz, (Usually bursty champions) or YOU CAN abuse hard (Ryze, kennen, zed). Firstly look at the first option, if it matches to DFT, take it, even if second part would indicate Thunderlords.
6: TDL does proc with Q + E + E, Q + E + AA, or Q + E + W. (Also with R though anywhere in the combo) Basically 3 different damage sources.
** I'll try to include these in the guide near future, thanks for the the questions and feedback!
First of all, I don't mind the questions, it's more than welcome, and will improve my thinking on how to improve the guide overall, so more like - Thank you!
With the recent nerf to feast, I'll suggest you take the double-edged sword as you pointed out. Especially when running thunderlords, since it add's up to your quick combo. Feast didn't get nerfed though, but Natural talent did get changed a bit. I usually like feast only because of the added sustain, when you are focusing more on the farming, and short trades in early. This is a preference pick, when definitely DES is the better scaling one, though the difference is not that big.
I used to run flash ghost earlier, when I was less experienced with Cassio. I personally feel like Ghost is a litle bit useless on her, to be fair. It can be a huge life saver, yes, but usually when you have to pop the ghost, you are already done goofed with positioning, which is the key in success with Cassio. I can see the fact how you can reposition yourself and chase in teamfights, I just feel it's a bit of overkill, with the good mobility from runes and Q's anyways. Also since ghost is a non-combat summoner, I value the non-combat teleport higher, which gives me the potential to get back to lane quickly, or even in some rare cases pick few kills in botlane.
Of course you can form your own opinions on the summoner spells, it's not what makes or breaks cassiopeia. If you feel like that added kiting potential is necessary and helps you more, than the other Sums, go for it! :) EDIT: The undeniable bonus of using ghost is the earlygame, when you're MS is slow due to lack of boots and levels. I just prefer the teleport, if barrier or ignite is not needed
Thanks for the feedback!