at the moment I am running
9x armor reds
9x manareg yellow
9x cdr blue
2x AP quint
1x cdr quint

alternatively reds and yellows armor and the rest AP

I dont know.. magic pen seems inferior to me(on level 4 you have 2 level 1 offensive spells, on level 6 its sill the same..) but well ure diamond so maybe u know better :P

Been a fan of this guide for years it feels, it has the best build pattern IMO but I've always windered (lol) why are you picking runes of Mage Pen when it follows a utility/peel build pattern and not an agro build?

Been maining Janna since Season 3.

Seal of Gold is an absolute waste of a runespace (0.25 gold per 10 seconds really?)
Janna is one of the squishiest champions, and she has like what, 5 health bars at the beginning of the game?

Get some seals of armor seeing she is bottom lane always versing an ADC, or else you will be the Janna that dies early game. Most games I play I don't die at all during the game (if we win) and the only times I ever do die is early game.

Also, I have found Quints of MveSpe are the best for her.

Other then that, this is probably the best build for Janna currently on Mobafire, the "peel em like oranges" one is pretty awful seeing he doesn't even include Ardent's Censor into it, which works with turrets and Janna is THE ONLY champion that can shield Turrets. Why the hell would you not buy Ardent's with Janna!??!?!?! Ardent's was made for Janna.

Also, Yes talisman of ascension. No to Spellthiefs. Janna is a UTILITY SUPPORT not an AP/Tank Support.

I find it very ironic that you're calling me out on making personal attacks but nevermind...

Anyway, to expand on the trading part:
You seem to have completely ignored the part where I said "push the under the tower". If you push them under the tower, they simply cannot retaliate for the following reasons:
1. They have to take cs
2. There is a wave pushing against them, engaging would result in taking a lot of minion damage
3. Pushing also usually results in an xp lead (especially in the first levels) - meaning they have to fight an overleveled enemy
This means that if they pick a fight, there's a 90% chance of them losing out if you don't **** up yourself.

Besides that, when I'm talking about short trades, I'm meaning something like AA+spell (e.g. Corki Q + autoattack empowered by just your shield) before backing off. Even if they trade back during the 1 second that you're aggressing onto them, you'll take no damage because of the shield. If the enemy tries to pick an all-out fight upon you aggressing, you can Q and disengage. Keep in mind that most ADC's arent able to burst through a near-full HP ADC with heal and your shield.



That sometimes happens, yes. In that case I fully support a defensive playstyle. However; the chance of no one maining or at least being able to play ADC in solo queue is very slim. Happens about 1 out of 5 games to me at maximum.



In botlane you have two of them?



I'm not a smurf at all? Where did I even imply that I was or had one? Where did I imply that I haven't tested your build or anything alike? I have over 200 games on Janna in my life, chances are very slim that I haven't ever played with a build very similar to yours (spoiler: I have). That's why I said that I understand the reasoning behind a lot of the choices, I just strongly disagree with them.

Seems like you got a bit personal, haven't you? How odd, for a Master player.



So I'm making a fool of myself when I don't know how to force short trades, but the enemy isn't making a fool of himself when he doesn't know how to retaliate? Hm.



Oh, I should use my disengage tools. The ones that I just used being agressive. Got it.



No. In SoloQ, the enemy isn't as bad (or good) as my ally. My ADC might be playing his worst role while the enemy ADC might be playing his main one.



I didn't know 60s trinkets were permanent.

By the way, both of us have a 61% win rate with Janna. But I'm not a smurf on Diamond. Yet my playstyle is poor. You're so full of your past that you can't even read the words I write. You didn't even test my build nor my playstyle before commenting. No wonder you're European.

You're making a fool of yourself when you don't know to force short trades without getting retaliated on in a major way. It's a simple as just pushing the lane and forcing the enemy to CS under their tower, where they have to prioritize CS'ing over hitting back. Another way is simply by abusing cooldowns on the enemy's spells and dashing in whenever possible. It's not hard and anyone of your level should know that. (Not to mention that even if they do try to retaliate, Janna has the best disengage tools too)

Besides that "this is a guide made for soloq" is no appropriate answer. In solo queue, your enemy is just as bad (or good) as your ally. If you hit the enemy ADC, the chance that your ADC hits him too is about as big as the chance that the enemy supports hits you back too. Besides, if you clearly communicate your playstyle your ADC will follow up if he's any comfortable playing the role. You have your trinket to avoid being ganked which you can have up permanently.

This is not 'playing by theory', this is explaining the theory behind some more complex game strategies. You can dismiss all my advice by saying "its just theory" or "its a guide for solo queue" but that won't get you (or your guide) anywhere.

I didn't downvote just for a difference in playstyle, Slappiz (another well known and high Elo janna player on this site) and I have clear differences in opinion on how to build her but we still respect each other's opinions. I downvoted for what I think is a very poor (not just different) way to play her.

Even Rammus can win solo lanes at times, if he gets a favorable match-up and does things perfectly and his enemy doesn't. Does that mean that he doesn't have a weak laning phase? I don't think so. It might be true that her potential in short trades is unmatched, but would a Thresh, a Blitzcrank or a Nautilus let you have a simple short trade? Or would they go all-in on your ADC knowing that you no longer have a single spell to counter theirs? What about a Sona or a Soraka that have built-in sustain? It's like you're assuming that you'll do these things and the enemy just won't know how to react.



This is a guide made for SoloQ. Try poking the enemy ADC as he and his support retaliates and your ADC does nothing. Also, try winning your lane after you got ganked because you were being agressive without vision. You're assuming everything will be just perfect for you. You won't get ganked, your ADC will know how to initiate trades and the enemy bot lane won't have a single clue about what the word "react" even means. Playing this game by theory alone is a mistake.

All the other things you said are a reflex of what you mentioned above, so I won't bother replying them. All in all, if you had a Janna guide with your playstyle, I wouldn't downvote it just because it's different than mine. It's just a guide. Nothing I say is set in stone, nor did I say that my playstyle is superior than all the others. It's just the way I play her. And if everyone had the same mindset as yours, why would people even bother creating guides? Anyway, thanks for your feedback.

I did try it. I just prefer more survivability over utility, early game.
As I said, you only skip Crucible if there's no hard CC on the enemy team. It's rare, but it can happen.
The guide will be expanded as it goes. The yellow font is standard, but I can't see how you can't read it well since the background is black and the font is light.

A lot of things in this guide made me go "I kinda understand why you might think this could be a good idea, but it isn't". This starts at the basic build things but also goes into some of the more practical aspects of playing Janna support. Randomly quoting a few things that struck me:



I can understand why you think this is true; Janna has no serious damage spells for lane and her tools seem fully defensively orientated. However, Janna can be played very aggressively in lane because her potential in short trades is unmatched - all you need to have is an ADC who knows to initiate trades themselves. If your ADC leads with a full spell rotation followed by simply your shield and a knockup there's nothing your enemy can do to retaliate.



This rune setup would (partially) make sense in the mindset that you're not playing your lane to win but to survive and outscale. However, the AP quint is an oddity because if you're playing with this mindset it's better to go GP10 quints (more effective gold wise) and swap to health/armour seals for some extra defense or sustain. That's not to mention that the gold generation from gold runes is generally massive overrated. Do the math on 2.25 gold per 10 seconds and see how far it'll get you.

As already discussed above, you CAN play Janna aggressively which is why I often choose to go ad/health/mr/armour (marks/seals/glyphs/quints). It allows you to capitulate on having longer range than you enemies and by just harassing then down through long range poke. If you also choose to start with Spellthief over Coin you'll actually be able to have a very dominating lane in a lot of matchups.



Again, from an overly passive perspective this makes sense. However, you're not playing Janna to her maximum potential if you're just banking on passive gold income in order to simply stay relevant and outscale. If you want to play her in a way to actually be relevant during the laning phase, you'll need potions to make sure you can sustain through the enemy poke. Having extra potions also allows you to trade with the enemy ADC more effectively.

In short; an ADC is stuck having one potion for at least the first couple of minutes of the laning phase. If you get 3 health potions and a mana potion you can simply keep trading autoattacks with him, and you'll win out on it because you have the potions to back it up; even if your hits themselves deal less damage. If you play it correctly, you'll force the enemy ADC back before he gets the chance to get a BF-sword while your ADC will be able to get his' on first base. That then snowballs your lane. That is why literally every experienced/high-elo support will pick the two extra potions over a ward at level 1 (or to avoid the same thing happening to you).

In general, your playstyle isn't necessarily bad but it just doesn't maximize Janna's potential. I play fully passive sometimes as well but only if I know I'm not going to win the matchup no matter what.



I agree with this. The new Ardent Censer is a good item but by no means important enough to bypass all other support items till very late into the game (unless you're snowballing; but in that case it may be better to buy Mejai's instead). As the bonus stats given from the passive are linear (as in; don't scale with level or AP) you HAVE to get the item very early on or it'll become obsolete. Simply put, it's very rare that I find myself in a situation where there isn't really an item I'd want to purchase over Ardent Censer as first major purchase, and you don't want to get Ardent Censer any later than first 20-25 minutes of the game right now.

Also, 0/9/21 is great. Synergizes very well with Janna's kit. Absolutely no reason not to go for it.

_______

I hope needlessly to say, I downvoted the guide; in my opinion it just doesn't optimizes Janna's potential and doesn't explain the full picture on how to play her. If you'd like to get back to me or ask for clarification, preferably hit me up through PM as I may not read these comments.

Some credentials for all the statements I made above: I'm a diamond 2 (ex-master tier) support main on EUW and play Janna actively since Season 2

Did you try 0/9/21? The early movement speed is insane
Another question: I buy every game crucibel because the support or tank has at least hard CC. How can you skip this? Sry if I sound too dramatic
I would add synergy with adc and the yellow font is to light to be able to read it well