Why do you not like
Braum with
Graves?
Also, I think that botlane matchups are a bit more dictated by the support matchup than the ADc matchup, considering equally skilled players. What would you think of also doing support matchups
Graves is good/bad against?
But going with ADcs matchups, I'd say that
Jinx,
Kalista and
Draven are tricky matchups. Keep in mind that I'm saying this from a support main perspective though.


Also, I think that botlane matchups are a bit more dictated by the support matchup than the ADc matchup, considering equally skilled players. What would you think of also doing support matchups

But going with ADcs matchups, I'd say that



Not sure about the corki/sivir matchups, both are pretty save picks and can usually trade evenly.
I'm also somewhat wondering why you think Bard/Blitzcrank are bad with graves. Braum I can personally understand (relatively low kill potential because Graves needs instant stuns instead).
With regards to kennen support, I'm not sure if it's worth considering to pick him if you're not playing Kalista but I've never played him myself so can't tell for sure.
Not saying that I disagree, I'd just like to pick your brain on this.
I'm also somewhat wondering why you think Bard/Blitzcrank are bad with graves. Braum I can personally understand (relatively low kill potential because Graves needs instant stuns instead).
With regards to kennen support, I'm not sure if it's worth considering to pick him if you're not playing Kalista but I've never played him myself so can't tell for sure.
Not saying that I disagree, I'd just like to pick your brain on this.
Vynertje wrote:
Not sure about the corki/sivir matchups, both are pretty save picks and can usually trade evenly.
I'm also somewhat wondering why you think Bard/Blitzcrank are bad with graves. Braum I can personally understand (relatively low kill potential because Graves needs instant stuns instead).
With regards to kennen support, I'm not sure if it's worth considering to pick him if you're not playing Kalista but I've never played him myself so can't tell for sure.
Not saying that I disagree, I'd just like to pick your brain on this.
I'm also somewhat wondering why you think Bard/Blitzcrank are bad with graves. Braum I can personally understand (relatively low kill potential because Graves needs instant stuns instead).
With regards to kennen support, I'm not sure if it's worth considering to pick him if you're not playing Kalista but I've never played him myself so can't tell for sure.
Not saying that I disagree, I'd just like to pick your brain on this.
Blitz is great in the ideal circumstance than he can hook people constantly, but most of the time what I feel ends up happening is they miss 80% of them and then I'm essentially 1v2'ing the enemy bot lane until his hook comes back up and the same thing happens. Graves wants to bully the enemy ADC, which he can't do 1v2. It's really hit or miss and most of the time I just feel like I'd rather have any other support when I'm getting supported by a Blitzcrank.
I mean it's pretty dependent on the skill of the Blitzcrank really, but I haven't experienced many good Blitzcranks so I'm more inclined to call him generally a bad support, not just with Graves.
I've never actually played with Kennen support, I just figured it would be good with


As for Bard, I personally feel like he's not good at both killing and bullying.
Out Of Pancakes wrote:
Why do you not like Braum with Graves?
Also, I think that botlane matchups are a bit more dictated by the support matchup than the ADc matchup, considering equally skilled players. What would you think of also doing support matchups Graves is good/bad against?
Also, I think that botlane matchups are a bit more dictated by the support matchup than the ADc matchup, considering equally skilled players. What would you think of also doing support matchups Graves is good/bad against?
Maybe I just have bad experiences with


I agree, I've mentioned in the guide already that the difficulty of each matchup is actually heavily influenced by the 2 supports, the part I have in the post is just meant to say "Graves on average should win/lose against this ADC", that kinda thing.
I don't think there are many supports he does especially well or bad against, so I'm not sure if doing a support matchups would be worth. The only thing I can think of is him doing well against



Out Of Pancakes wrote:
But going with ADcs matchups, I'd say that Jinx, Kalista and Draven are tricky matchups. Keep in mind that I'm saying this from a support main perspective though.
You're possibly right about all 3 of them, I'm just not too sure as I've mostly won those matchups, but that might just be luck in the supports department, or just because I was better than them.
Also,





I agree with what you said.
Maybe it's just me that could play
Braum aggressively without getting punished as hard as I should have or my opponents making mistakes. Nevertheless, your point makes sense.
But with the matchups being so dependants on the supports, what would you think of explaining a bit of how to play against each support, what to expect from them or do you think it would be too long/boring/not interesting to write?
Maybe it's just me that could play

But with the matchups being so dependants on the supports, what would you think of explaining a bit of how to play against each support, what to expect from them or do you think it would be too long/boring/not interesting to write?
See if you can 1v1 the gold top laner mindset ^^
I'm also questioning your placement of the Blitz. It could be a very good lane depending on the matchup, he fits in Graves' bursty early/mid game. Let me put it this way: if not with Graves, what ADC is Blitz good with? I have a feeling you just don't like Blitz on its own (wonder why :^)). Not that I think that's a bad thing. And I now see you already said that so rip paragraph.
I think that Braum on the other hand isn't good with him because in lane you're not going to get the stacks off in a simple trade. It's not that he's bad with him, but I wouldn't say good either.
In my opinion Draven can be tricky because he can actually outtrade you easily if you don't play correctly. I'm also wondering how the new MF does against him in this aspect but I haven't seen much of her yet.
I agree with Vynertje, I think Sivir can be dangerous, with the spell shield and decent burst plus the fact that she outranges you with her Q. All things you can play around of course but it's suboptimal.
I think Janna (maybe also Nami) can work with Graves but I don't think it's optimal as she's not really able to join in on the all-in aspects. She's great if you can do the lane bully thing though, but I'd call that situational.
Another thing in my mind is that Tristana's going to outrange you pretty bad as time goes by, but I'm not sure how much that matters.
Regarding Kennen, I think you put Shen in the bad list because you can't really make use of the full E duration in lane and I'd say the same about Kennen's ult. Furthermore his stun takes quite a bit of setup so it's hard for him to join in on the short trades turning into burst battles. Even with his ult it may take a while.
I'm also questioning your placement of the Blitz. It could be a very good lane depending on the matchup, he fits in Graves' bursty early/mid game. Let me put it this way: if not with Graves, what ADC is Blitz good with? I have a feeling you just don't like Blitz on its own (wonder why :^)). Not that I think that's a bad thing. And I now see you already said that so rip paragraph.
I think that Braum on the other hand isn't good with him because in lane you're not going to get the stacks off in a simple trade. It's not that he's bad with him, but I wouldn't say good either.
In my opinion Draven can be tricky because he can actually outtrade you easily if you don't play correctly. I'm also wondering how the new MF does against him in this aspect but I haven't seen much of her yet.
I agree with Vynertje, I think Sivir can be dangerous, with the spell shield and decent burst plus the fact that she outranges you with her Q. All things you can play around of course but it's suboptimal.
I think Janna (maybe also Nami) can work with Graves but I don't think it's optimal as she's not really able to join in on the all-in aspects. She's great if you can do the lane bully thing though, but I'd call that situational.
Another thing in my mind is that Tristana's going to outrange you pretty bad as time goes by, but I'm not sure how much that matters.
Regarding Kennen, I think you put Shen in the bad list because you can't really make use of the full E duration in lane and I'd say the same about Kennen's ult. Furthermore his stun takes quite a bit of setup so it's hard for him to join in on the short trades turning into burst battles. Even with his ult it may take a while.
********'s a pretty good fertilizer
I agree with the Blitz, I don't think he is a good support with any ADC, because it is way too easy to dodge his hook or positioning yourself adequately behind some minions..
And if he actually missed you are kinda alone against two.
And if he actually missed you are kinda alone against two.

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Not sure I completely agree with
Ashe, like it's okay for similar reasons to
Caitlyn but she gets really badly messed up if he closes the gap (e.g. he has a kill support) because she doesn't have an escape like Caitlyn does and is basically 100% going to get hit by all his ****.
Sivir is pretty good against Graves if the Sivir player is skilled because she can spellshield Q and R literally every time, although she still has to deal with range disadvantage and less damage when spellshield is down.
Other matchups can definitely be bad depending on what happens.
Corki is relatively safe against him I'd say,
Jinx/
Tristana/
Draven could go either way depending on supports but imo they generally favour Graves.
Kalista is actually really bad against Graves, I'd say she gets countered by him. You can't trade with him because of his passive + Q damage and you can't really all-in him either because he'll burst you way before you get enough E stacks. It sucks.
Not sure I completely agree with



Other matchups can definitely be bad depending on what happens.





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Here's what I have so far, I'd like it if people more experienced could throw in their opinions on it.
AD carries
AD carries
Supports that are good with Graves:
Supports that are bad with Graves:
I want to make sure I've got it all right before I start writing about each individual champion.