Solo Top Leona

[quote=BluAnimal][quote=GrandmasterD] Ok, in case you didn't get it. Leona is an awful top laner, why? It's simple: [list] [*] We can build her either ap or ad but ap Leona still deals no damage so I assume ad Leona. [*] She can't push or clear waves at all as her spells deal no damage. This means she is likely to get pushed and lose tons of cs or she gets zoned. [*] Passive is mostly wasted. Yes we can camp top but we won't for a very simple reason: Leona does, as most tanks, not snowball in any way. Camping, therefore, is fairly useless. [*] She offers nothing more than support Leona. She might get her tank items somewhat earlier but that's it. [*] No burst damage and relies solely on autoattacks to deal damage. This means she already gets shut down by a [[Ninja Tabi]]. She changes in some sort of [[Master Yi]] or [[Fiora]] with cc but no abilities that work with this build. [*] Low mobility and no escape spell, thus easy target for ganks. [*] Low mobility and no sticking power, thus prone to kiting. [*] You grant your enemy free farm. (and if your enemy is an [[Irelia]], a [[Jax]] or a [[Vladimir]] you might as well give up) [*] No sustainability. [/list] [/quote] [list] [*] AD [[leona]], yes. The scaling of her AP ratios are pitiful, I wouldn't get any AP items on her besides [[abyssal scepter]] and [[sheen]]. [*] Auto attack each minion once/twice, or wait for your wave to turn them into fodder. [[eclipse]], Profit. [*] Her passive isn't the best for a solo lane. But then again neither is [[teemo]]'s. It's not wasted just because of the lane phase. Come teamfights it will be helping, along with a strong jungler such as [[nocturne]] or [[lee sin]]. [*] She can dish out some incredible damage. [[shield of daybreak]] can do around 400 damage with [[wriggle's lantern]] and [[trinity force]] combined, put that on a 5 second cool down with auto attacks of about 200 AD in between. Oh and she's carrying all those stuns. [*] No burst damage? [[eclipse]], [[zenith blade]], [[shield of daybreak]]. A quick 800 damage and a stunned enemy. [*] Low mobility can be overcome by [[greater quintessence of swiftness]] and [[trinity force]]. Also why does a tank need an escape when she has 3 stuns and carrying around 200-300 armor/mr? That's plenty enough to let her walk back to her tower. [*] [[phage]] and movement items. ([[trinity force]] takes care of both those issues) [*] She can be an incredible bully if you max [[shield of daybreak]] first. Go in there, stun them for about 200-400 damage (depending on where your build is at), [[eclipse]] them for another 250 and walk out with the 70 armor/mr buff. I've been playing against a lot of [[jax]]'s top and stomping them all. Although I have played Jax for 2 years so most of their actions are predictable to me, at least. [/list] With that said, who do you see top lane most of the time? AD bruisers who rely heavily on auto attacks and chaining their combos, most without a poking ability. If they get in your face to attack you, [[shield of daybreak]], auto attack twice and walk away. If you're ganked? Stun them, ult if necessary and walk away. Farming is easy with her too, [[eclipse]] the minions, if any are left alive [[zenith blade]] down the row.[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=Xeronn] ^ Most of that sounds the same as [[Shen]], except for: - Low mobility and no escape spell, thus easy target for ganks. And [[Shen]] has a global ult, other than that.. yea. He is just a pain in the lane imo for enemies that don't have their own sustain or can't kill him. [/quote] Shen actually deals damage with his spells. He has decent ap scalings and a great health scaling. Additionally, shen has amazing lane sustain with his Q and being manaless.[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=BluAnimal] [quote=GrandmasterD] Ok, in case you didn't get it. Leona is an awful top laner, why? It's simple: [list] [*] We can build her either ap or ad but ap Leona still deals no damage so I assume ad Leona. [*] She can't push or clear waves at all as her spells deal no damage. This means she is likely to get pushed and lose tons of cs or she gets zoned. [*] Passive is mostly wasted. Yes we can camp top but we won't for a very simple reason: Leona does, as most tanks, not snowball in any way. Camping, therefore, is fairly useless. [*] She offers nothing more than support Leona. She might get her tank items somewhat earlier but that's it. [*] No burst damage and relies solely on autoattacks to deal damage. This means she already gets shut down by a [[Ninja Tabi]]. She changes in some sort of [[Master Yi]] or [[Fiora]] with cc but no abilities that work with this build. [*] Low mobility and no escape spell, thus easy target for ganks. [*] Low mobility and no sticking power, thus prone to kiting. [*] You grant your enemy free farm. (and if your enemy is an [[Irelia]], a [[Jax]] or a [[Vladimir]] you might as well give up) [*] No sustainability. [/list] [/quote] [list] [*] AD [[leona]], yes. The scaling of her AP ratios are pitiful, I wouldn't get any AP items on her besides [[abyssal scepter]] and [[sheen]]. [*] Auto attack each minion once/twice, or wait for your wave to turn them into fodder. [[eclipse]], Profit. [*] Her passive isn't the best for a solo lane. But then again neither is [[teemo]]'s. It's not wasted just because of the lane phase. Come teamfights it will be helping, along with a strong jungler such as [[nocturne]] or [[lee sin]]. [*] She can dish out some incredible damage. [[shield of daybreak]] can do around 400 damage with [[wriggle's lantern]] and [[trinity force]] combined, put that on a 5 second cool down with auto attacks of about 200 AD in between. Oh and she's carrying all those stuns. [*] No burst damage? [[eclipse]], [[zenith blade]], [[shield of daybreak]]. A quick 800 damage and a stunned enemy. [*] Low mobility can be overcome by [[greater quintessence of swiftness]] and [[trinity force]]. Also why does a tank need an escape when she has 3 stuns and carrying around 200-300 armor/mr? That's plenty enough to let her walk back to her tower. [*] [[phage]] and movement items. ([[trinity force]] takes care of both those issues) [*] She can be an incredible bully if you max [[shield of daybreak]] first. Go in there, stun them for about 200-400 damage (depending on where your build is at), [[eclipse]] them for another 250 and walk out with the 70 armor/mr buff. I've been playing against a lot of [[jax]]'s top and stomping them all. Although I have played Jax for 2 years so most of their actions are predictable to me, at least. [/list] With that said, who do you see top lane most of the time? AD bruisers who rely heavily on auto attacks and chaining their combos, most without a poking ability. If they get in your face to attack you, [[shield of daybreak]], auto attack twice and walk away. If you're ganked? Stun them, ult if necessary and walk away. Farming is easy with her too, [[eclipse]] the minions, if any are left alive [[zenith blade]] down the row. [/quote] Im done talking about it. Leona top lane is bad and not viable at all for all reasons I gave. Also, even if it slightly works, she has nothing more than a support leona and gets outclassed by about everything. It's just bad.[/quote]

[quote=BluAnimal][quote=GrandmasterD] Im done talking about it. Leona top lane is bad and not viable at all for all reasons I gave. Also, even if it slightly works, she has nothing more than a support leona and gets outclassed by about everything. It's just bad. [/quote] [img=http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/1466/stl.png][/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD]1 soloq normal game!? OMG solo top leona new meta[/quote]

[quote=BluAnimal][quote=GrandmasterD] 1 soloq normal game!? OMG solo top leona new meta [/quote] I don't understand what you see wrong with it, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion.[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD]My point is that one game doesnt prove anything. Play like 20-30 games of solo top leona and show me all screenshots. There are so much factors, also you can get extremely biased by the enemies you face; any decent solo top player should absolutely win the lane vs leona. Im not saying that you cant have your opinion but solo top leona just isnt good for the many reasons I stated. Even if it does work, it gets outclassed heavily. I'd like to see more screenshots and preferably videos/replays of the game, especially the laning phase.[/quote]

[quote=TopDogJW]I thought you were done talking about it?[/quote]

[quote=BluAnimal]I'll be sure to take some screenshots. I only have 2 games of her in my match history at the moment (one being the one I already showed) but I'll play some more within the next week. I'll also get a replay (not sure how).[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=TopDogJW] I thought you were done talking about it? [/quote] People change their minds, it happens… get over it! @bluanimal: please do so. You can use LoLreplay to get a replay or just use fraps to record it and create a video. You can also inv me for a game if Im online (my NA account is only lvl 16 tho). You need to test this a lot before you can say its awesome, be honest to yourself. Mainly, remain skeptical![/quote]