Jebus McAzn wrote:
*points directly down at amumu*
*points in an arbitrary direction where
Fiddlesticks is*
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Tendresse
<Member>
<Member>
I thouroughly enjoyed reading your Bloodthirster vs IE post, and was pleased with the outcome. However, for the sake of discussion, I'll go even further as to say that Bloodthirster is a worthless item on any champion that doesn't fit the bill of your #1 reason why you would want Bloodthirster : "1. If you play Sivir, Pantheon, or other ability-reliant AD DPS champions".
I've posted this a while back on another forum :
Bloodthirster : I don't like this item. I used to, but the love story is over now. There's just something that irks me about losing 40% of the weapon's efficiency upon death. But why Tendresse, when you're advocating the use of Mejai's? Well let me put it this way. Bloodthirster is ****ing expesive. Dying with a fully stacked Sword of the Occult brings you down to 14 stacks, which is a 30% loss in efficiency, 10% less than a fully stacked Bloodthirster. You're Ashe, you're going to get focused, you're going to die a lot. It's a necessity. I don't know about you, but grinding out 40 minions late game is a ****ing chore for me. There's just other places you need to be. People always seem to assume that Bloodthirster = 100 damage, but it's really not the case. I mean, how many times did I look up to my Bloodthirster 50:00 minutes in and noticed it's only dealing 80 damage, even though I died 10 minutes ago?
At least when you buy a standard snowballing item, you've only spent 1.2k to acquire it. Therefore you got 2k more gold spent elsewhere, hopefully on some non-snowballing items that retain their efficiency after death. So let's crunch some numbers :
Sword of the Occult : 1369 Gold
10 Base damage
110 Damage with 20 stacks
BF Sword : 1850 Gold
50 Base damage
Sword of the Occult + BF Sword roughly equals the price of a Bloodthirster.
Say you get 20 stacks. It's very unlikely, but if you do, you'll be dealing 160 extra damage from those two items. That's a ****load more than 100. But Bloodthirster gives you life leech ! Yeah, and fully stacked SotO gives you 15% movement speed. Say they cancel each other out as survivability gimmicks (I don't think they do, because I'd rather take a permanent half-ghost than lifesteal anyday of the week, but just for the sake of comparison, pretend they cancel each others out).
You die. Your sword of the occult goes down to 14 stacks; it now deals 80 damage by itself. In addition to the BF sword, that's still a reasonable 130 damage. With Bloodthirster, you're down to 60. For Bloodthirster to be more effective than SotO and BFS after death, you'd need to be down to... 0 stacks. So then you'd have the lifeleech. So now you'd have to consider how much you value lifesteal. 1% lifesteal is worth about as much as 1 damage (1 Long Sword = 10 Damage, 1 Vamp Scepter = 12% Lifesteal, Vamp Scepter is a tad more expensive). Which means that 15% lifesteal ~ 15 damage.
THEREFORE, in conclusion, to summarize, upon death, if you have 3 stacks or less, a Bloodthirster is worth it. Since I really hope you're aiming for something a bit better than that, you should consider other items.
--
I'll add something that I haven't said in the post I just copypasted, I suppose Bloodthirster is a viable choice during those lategame teamfights after you have all your final items and during the fights, 2-3 people on each side die everytime, and you can't help it but be one of them. In this case, you need to optimize every slot of your inventory so the BF Sword + SotO point becomes moot since they occupy 2 slots instead of 1. That being said, not getting a BT gives you an edge for the first 50 minutes of the game.
I've posted this a while back on another forum :
Bloodthirster : I don't like this item. I used to, but the love story is over now. There's just something that irks me about losing 40% of the weapon's efficiency upon death. But why Tendresse, when you're advocating the use of Mejai's? Well let me put it this way. Bloodthirster is ****ing expesive. Dying with a fully stacked Sword of the Occult brings you down to 14 stacks, which is a 30% loss in efficiency, 10% less than a fully stacked Bloodthirster. You're Ashe, you're going to get focused, you're going to die a lot. It's a necessity. I don't know about you, but grinding out 40 minions late game is a ****ing chore for me. There's just other places you need to be. People always seem to assume that Bloodthirster = 100 damage, but it's really not the case. I mean, how many times did I look up to my Bloodthirster 50:00 minutes in and noticed it's only dealing 80 damage, even though I died 10 minutes ago?
At least when you buy a standard snowballing item, you've only spent 1.2k to acquire it. Therefore you got 2k more gold spent elsewhere, hopefully on some non-snowballing items that retain their efficiency after death. So let's crunch some numbers :
Sword of the Occult : 1369 Gold
10 Base damage
110 Damage with 20 stacks
BF Sword : 1850 Gold
50 Base damage
Sword of the Occult + BF Sword roughly equals the price of a Bloodthirster.
Say you get 20 stacks. It's very unlikely, but if you do, you'll be dealing 160 extra damage from those two items. That's a ****load more than 100. But Bloodthirster gives you life leech ! Yeah, and fully stacked SotO gives you 15% movement speed. Say they cancel each other out as survivability gimmicks (I don't think they do, because I'd rather take a permanent half-ghost than lifesteal anyday of the week, but just for the sake of comparison, pretend they cancel each others out).
You die. Your sword of the occult goes down to 14 stacks; it now deals 80 damage by itself. In addition to the BF sword, that's still a reasonable 130 damage. With Bloodthirster, you're down to 60. For Bloodthirster to be more effective than SotO and BFS after death, you'd need to be down to... 0 stacks. So then you'd have the lifeleech. So now you'd have to consider how much you value lifesteal. 1% lifesteal is worth about as much as 1 damage (1 Long Sword = 10 Damage, 1 Vamp Scepter = 12% Lifesteal, Vamp Scepter is a tad more expensive). Which means that 15% lifesteal ~ 15 damage.
THEREFORE, in conclusion, to summarize, upon death, if you have 3 stacks or less, a Bloodthirster is worth it. Since I really hope you're aiming for something a bit better than that, you should consider other items.
--
I'll add something that I haven't said in the post I just copypasted, I suppose Bloodthirster is a viable choice during those lategame teamfights after you have all your final items and during the fights, 2-3 people on each side die everytime, and you can't help it but be one of them. In this case, you need to optimize every slot of your inventory so the BF Sword + SotO point becomes moot since they occupy 2 slots instead of 1. That being said, not getting a BT gives you an edge for the first 50 minutes of the game.
3picPanda
<Member>
<Member>
@Tendresse
This might interest you. It also shows how underpowered BT is atm.
This might interest you. It also shows how underpowered BT is atm.
The moment a religious person unknowingly calls his own ways stupid: "And lol. I highly doubt you have magic powers. If you proved it I would believe you, but since you 'refuse to', I choose not to."
Jebus, I just wanted to point out that Void Staff gives more penetration when your enemy has over 78.55MR, not the 87 you state in the article.
Btw; I got kinda interested in making a graph on the damage of a Bloodrazor. The most simple way of doing that would be to only have %damage as Y-axis, but it would be cool to add in hp in that calculation. I'll need a 3D graph for that though and I don't know a good program for that :(
Btw; I got kinda interested in making a graph on the damage of a Bloodrazor. The most simple way of doing that would be to only have %damage as Y-axis, but it would be cool to add in hp in that calculation. I'll need a 3D graph for that though and I don't know a good program for that :(
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens
Got it. I knew my calculations were a bit off.
Regardless, I wouldn't care whether it's more efficient at 75 or 95 - there's a range of about 10 spell pen that I'd be willing to give up for the bonuses that Scepter provides (i.e. even if Void Staff starts giving 30 magic pen I'd still want to run Scepter).
Regardless, I wouldn't care whether it's more efficient at 75 or 95 - there's a range of about 10 spell pen that I'd be willing to give up for the bonuses that Scepter provides (i.e. even if Void Staff starts giving 30 magic pen I'd still want to run Scepter).
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In that case, I think the only way you're getting below 0 MR now is when nidalee's bushwhack is activated THEN the abyssal scepter aura is applied.
*points directly down at amumu*