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The Shen Rework, all quotes

Creator: NicknameMy January 31, 2012 9:02am
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Quoted:
Originally Posted by Roku 2011-12-16
In addition to the two item changes that are available to test [on PBE], we'd also like to add changes to Shen and Vladimir. As always these changes are not final! Total changes are:

Shen

Vorpal Blade
Energy cost changed to 60 from 70/65/60/55/50
Healing effect reduced to 10/16/22/28/34 from 18/26/34/42/50
Healing effect now also heals for 2% of attacker's maximum health per hit
Shen gets the heal if he last hits with Vorpal Blade
Single target damaging spells can now also trigger Vorpal Blade instead of just attacks
Feint
Feint now grants 20/25/30/35/40 Armor while it's active
Feint duration increased to 3 from 2.5
Cost increased to 50 from 45
Shadow Dash
Cooldown changed to 11-9 from 10
Energy cost reduced to 100 from 120-100
Taunt Duration increased to 1/1.3/1.6/1.9/2.2 from 1/1.25/1.5/1.75/2
Restores 40 Energy per champion affected, from 50 Energy if you affect one
Ki Strike
Bonus Damage from Health increased to 12% from 8%
Cooldown is now reduced by 0.5 seconds for minion hits in addition to 2 seconds for champion hits


Quoted:
Originally Posted by Meddler 2012-01-19
Can't speak to exact details, I'm not certain what's locked and what's not yet. The direction we're investigating's looking at energy costs, cooldowns/durations and tank utility though, rather than AP ratios like some previous tweaks, so should be a reasonable boost for tank build Shens, not just the rarer AP builds.


Quoted:
Originally Posted by Guinsoo 2012-01-20
The unfortunate answer is that we're not doing much with Feint. While it's a weakness in the set of changes we have, most of the approaches we tried didn't solve the issues anyway (it's hard to make a non-utility spell worth using on an energy character, as opposed to a mana character, because of the distributed cooldown system). It also is a lot more useful on AP Shen than tank Shen because of the high AP ratio and moderate base shield to energy cost ratio. So we are decreasing the energy cost and increasing the raw shield value a little bit at upper ranks. I don't really think this is going to make his Feint a great skill, but it's clearly skill #4 in his kit. So while we have a few small buffs coming to it, I still doubt it will be the focus point for many Shen players.

To solve his energy issues we are flattening and generally reducing his costs, and allowing Shadow Dash to restore more energy for taunting multiple champions.


Quoted:
Originally Posted by Guinsoo 2012-01-20
Actually I think AP Shen converts AP into support and tank-ish elements pretty well: Feint gives him bonus defenses, and Stand United has a pretty monstrous AP ratio which goes on an ally. There are other tanks where you can build AP and it converts straight into damage (Singed, Amumu are great examples). It is unique that he's a tank without any AoE damage, but he also has some pretty unique strengths to go with it. Notably, I think it'd be really hard to balance his split pushing with the ult if he had good AoE damage.

I don't want to divulge too many of the other changes but there are plenty of other tweaks that benefit tank Shen more than AP Shen. For example a buff to Ki Strike and the HP scaling that everyone is talking about on his Vorpal Blade. And even more needed, some defenses when Shadow Dashing.


Quoted:
Originally Posted by Guinsoo 2012-01-20
We have been tuning. What was on PBE/PTR was too strong; Shen was totally dominating top lanes. Notably the last hitting restoring health with Q mechanic is super strong on an energy champion, especially solo top; we're fiddling with that. Currently it restores some health, but less than a full hit.


Quoted:
Originally Posted by Guinsoo 2012-01-24
Shen is on fire.


Quoted:
Originally Posted by Classick 2012-01-27
We definitely want to buff Shen, there's no questions about it. The challenge is making sure the buffs are done right, recently we had some changes on the PBE environment but we were not entirely happy with those changes. We decided to do some more work on his buffs before we release them.


Quoted:
Originally Posted by Statikk 2012-01-27
Shen is a project we are currently actively working on. We want to not only just buff Shen though, rather we are attempting to take this opportunity to experiment with some gameplay changes that would make Shen more fun to play overall.

On Live, most of Shen's fun comes from the power and feel of his ultimate as it controls the flow of the battlefield. While that is awesome, we want to make sure Shen players can have interesting gameplay while his ultimate is not up. On Live, this gameplay currently consists of Shadow Dashing into a fight hopefully taunting the right targets, expending the rest of his energy rapidly by choosing to use Vorpal Blade or Feint, and then standing around looking pretty with no Energy for the rest of the fight.

The #1 issue we want to resolve with Shen is to make sure that he can have a sustained threat presence/utility in late game team fights. In my opinion, this starts with addressing his current Energy issues. Imagine a Shen who can Shadow Dash 2-3 times across the battlefield per fight, first locking down enemies and then returning to the aid of his allies to thwart off attackers. Not that this is necessarily exactly what we'll eventually do, but these are the kinds of thoughts we are currently toying with.

At the same time, we want to make sure that we keep Shen's extremes in check. For example, top lane Shen actually has a ton of sustain and early on can out harass / out lane many of the popular top lane champions used today. It can be an extremely frustrating experience. Another pain point in playing against Shen is the dreaded side push strategy in which he forces one of your team to stop him and then suddenly teleports to the team fight making it a 4v5. Although these are valid strategies and situations Shen excels at, we want to make sure opponents have the necessary counterplay options to fight against them.

These are the types of issues we are tackling while working on Shen, and unfortunately it does take a good amount of time to get right, especially with the multitude of other projects going on.


Quoted:
Originally Posted by Guinsoo 2012-01-31
We've been working on Shen a ton lately. We were trying really hard to polish him out for the Ziggs patch, but there were some core issues we just weren't quite able to solve with the implementation we had. So we're trying a few different things. The goal is to have him ready for the next patch after, but I can't make any promises.

Many of the changes you guys saw on PBE are being tried out in various forms - scaling heal on Q, more utility on W, more use of E, small ultimate utility nerfs (add more counterplay), and some small Ki Strike tweaks to encourage the gameplay we want. And of course, some buffs in specific areas


From: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=685784
caucheka
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its nice to know how much work they're putting into it but ******** i want my new shen now!
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So excited for this^^

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Shen needs more power in his q-w-e because his ulti is underwhelming if that's all he's got, in my eyes.
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Quoted:
Originally Posted by Guinsoo 2012-01-31
Working hard on dat Shen. Too much burst right now.
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Quoted:

Originally Posted by Guinsoo 2012-01-31
Working hard on dat Shen. Too much burst right now.


lol, Shen's gonna be a carry instead of a tank
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Considering his kit is too small for tanking anyways...
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I'M SO EXCITED FOR THIS REMAKE OMG.

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Ryze, Sivir and Jax were remade, Ryze was complete rehaul, sivir practicly had only one skill remade, Jax partially fail of remake IMO. And since it's going downhill with these remakes, wonder what will they screw up with Shen now...
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DuffTime wrote:

Shen needs more power in his q-w-e because his ulti is underwhelming if that's all he's got, in my eyes.

Split pushing?
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