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[Petition] Guide Types

Creator: jhoijhoi November 14, 2013 3:08pm
10 posts - page 1 of 1
Do you think that the guide types need updating/changing?
jhoijhoi
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Scenario
So you have a guide about Soraka. It's not competitive, it's actually ADC Soraka. You know it's not the best way to play Soraka, but you really enjoy it and you want to share it with others. In fact, you don't want to just share it with your friends, you want other people to see how you play ADC Soraka.

Except when you post it as a "Champion" guide, it gets downvoted to oblivion. Not because the guide itself is bad (you were sure to explain why x is good on her, with correct math to prove it), but because people want to read a support Soraka guide and think you are "trolling". Searching around, you notice that there are actually a few categories to choose from. But... humour? Really? The guide isn't funny. You didn't write it for the lels. It's an actual guide for a playstyle you enjoy.

Suggestion
+ Change the guide types to: COMPETITIVE, CASUAL, GENERAL, MOBAFIRE (instead of Champion, General, Humor and Team). I think all guides can fall under one of those categories. Bludes' humour guides would go in casual. IceCreamy's LoL guide would go into general. Luther's Caitlyn guide would go into competitive. My "Making a Guide Guide" would go into MobaFire. With these guide types comes more freedom to write guides for a specific reason (MobaFire help, LoL mechanics, Lore story, ADC Lucian etc). Additionally, guides that don't "belong" now have a place to go. Lastly, separating "competitive guides" and "casual" guides will (hopefully) improve the "official competitive" list of guides for each champion. [To be clear, anyone should be able to write a guide in the Competitive section - no elo restriction!]

Concerns
- Changing the types may confuse some readers. Losing "Team" types is not really a determent (there aren't many up to date team guides at all), as most of the Team guides can easily slot into General. Losing the "Humor" type may be saddening for people who actually post troll guides for the sake of humour (AP Riven, AP Garen etc), but these guides could still go in CASUAL with the suggested new system.

tldr;
Change guide types to:
> COMPETITIVE: Guides intended for ranked play
> CASUAL: Guides intended for normal games, testing builds/playstyles etc
> GENERAL: Guides about LoL-specific mechanics (jungling guide, adc guide etc)
> MOBAFIRE: Guides related to MobaFire/off topic (coding guides, review shops)

Mowen
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep November 14, 2013 3:21pm | Report
I think we had this discussion before that almost no one would use the "non-competitive guides" section because 99% of people would think their's is competitive, and then they'd get hate for being new to the game. There also wouldn't be able to be moderation on it unless it's something really obvious like all mana items on Garen.

I know we discussed the "MOBAFire" guide type and the other admins felt that guides should be for LoL things and not MOBAFire things, but maybe they would have a different opinion now because I think there's been more made since that discussion.
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jhoijhoi
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep November 14, 2013 3:37pm | Report
I think back when we discussed it, the "non-competitive" section would be there on the proviso that "competitive" guides were high elo. What I'm asking here, essentially, is that "humor" is renamed "CASUAL".

I don't know if I agree with the 99% remark, as some guides are published just for the intent to share the guide, not with the idea that the build etc would work in ranked play.

There shouldn't be any more moderation on it beyond the same moderation that exists if someone publishes a Twisted Treeline guide with SR items - it just gets moved to the right category if it's a problem. If someone posts a guide in the Competitive section and it gets downvoted because they are new to the game, how is that any different to today's current system?

This idea is simply adding in the choice to post to a "CASUAL" list that isn't General (that may not apply) or Humor (looking at this, you can see a lot of the "humor" guides are actually just non-meta guides, like ADC Maokai and Jungle Leona). So, instead of posting a support Nasus guide to the current list and getting downvoted, they can post it to the CASUAL list and maybe even get some upvotes.

So:
> COMPETITIVE: Guides intended for ranked play
> CASUAL: Guides intended for normal games, testing builds/playstyles etc
> GENERAL: Guides about LoL-specific mechanics (jungling guide, adc guide etc)
> MOBAFIRE: Guides related to MobaFire/off topic (coding guides, review shops)
astrolia
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Mowen wrote:

I think we had this discussion before that almost no one would use the "non-competitive guides" section because 99% of people would think their's is competitive, and then they'd get hate for being new to the game.

I agree, but this is the type of thing where making features that are only available to people who've verified would be useful. This way, someone under level 30 can't make a "competitive" guide. (But apparently ELOphant doesn't work, so.)
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jhoijhoi
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep November 14, 2013 3:58pm | Report
It would indeed incorporate some sort of quality control, and it may even inform users when their guide is submitted/published that it is currently in CASUAL due to no summoner name verification.

It's an interesting addition, but if it's too complicated, that's fine. All I really want is the guide types to be changed, as I really do want to keep up some of my guides, but I don't feel they are competitive, nor are they "humour", and they shouldn't go in General or Team. So I'm stuck with my guides (Nasus, Warwick) being in the top positions when they don't necessarily deserve to be.

And of course, before anyone can accuse me, this isn't just for me. This sort of aligns with Nick's rants about disclaimers and how guides that aren't competitive should say they aren't. Instead of having to say "Guys, ADC Soraka isn't competitive" in the intro, the guide could just be placed in CASUAL and leave actual competitive Soraka guides to wage a war of votes in the COMPETITIVE section.
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I like the term "Casual" a lot better than "Non-competitive" (doesn't have negative connotation). I could get behind Casual guides. I think it should still show Casual guides in default searches though, but you can filter them out if you want. Hopefully we could make some better way to mark what types guides are.

I would *think* it wouldn't be too hard to require verification for things, but I'm afraid of the repercussions. Elophant doesn't support every region, and it's already kind've screwing those regions since they can't get a high elo feature. It would be even more sad if they couldn't make a guide tagged as competitive. I think a better idea would be to make the default guide type Casual as a lot of the people who log on to make something real quick don't check the guide settings.
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jhoijhoi
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Default guide tagged as casual would also avoid that sort of scenario where people are automatically submitting their guides into "competitive", even if that wasn't their intention. They'd have to manually switch to competitive from casual, so if they get downvoted in that category, it is legit their fault, lol.

I know there are a lot of projects currently going on, but I hope that this one goes through. I do think the benefits outweigh the negatives. Maybe this even levels out the issues I raised about special guest guides getting preference. Special guest guides ARE competitive, they DO deserve to be featured. And people who write guides for casual play get their chance to shine too, with interesting guides like AP Varus or ADC Soraka, WITHOUT putting that negative connotation on MobaFire that the "top guides are sub-optimal". If the guide is supposed to be competitive, it needs to be optimal!
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Well I think it should be pretty easy to change humour to casual, and default filters too, but changing the guide browser display etc would be more difficult. We shall see.
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IceCreamy
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I really like your suggestion jhoi, but I do think there should be a difference between humor guides and pre30/casual guides.

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jhoijhoi
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Well, there aren't that many humour guides out there that are updated, solely because pretty much the only people who frequent the humour section are the people who know it exists (ie, those of us who have been here a while) or who saw a comment in recent history, perhaps. There are only 10 Humour guides at "Fresh".

Maybe instead of "Humour", the title should be "Fun". For instance, the LoL Pet guide - is that really humour, or is that for fun? I guess the difference between Humour and Fun is splitting hairs, but Humour indicates that the guide has to be funny or humorous, whereas Fun could mean anything from writing a guide for "Catch the Teemo" to Bludes' crime fighting quest.

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