Effective Counters? (Knowing when to cut damage...

[quote=jacklyon][b]TL;DR: If I'm not doing well in lane, how do I know when to drop my AP/AD items and stack some simple armor or MR?[/b] If I play mid, I usually main Annie. I'm summoner level 23 just for reference (and filling out my runes nicely). I usually play snowball Annie (Mejai's) as I feel she does best late-game that way. Problems start if I get shut down early. When I lane against a high sustain champ, it feels pretty hard to do well. I can usually poke with a q, retreat a bit, HP pot, then nuke their face for a guaranteed kill. The problem is if they know I can melt faces, they know to retreat, heal, and come back at full (where my nuke probably won't one-shot them). Biggest problems for me are Ashe/Sivir/Fiddle - any one that pokes hard and tends to shut me down when I go in for my combo, or live through it to stun and kill me in turn. I know with an AP mid it's not good to ever cut your AP because you're really there for the team fights and large bursts, but this is just a specific situation. Edit: Also consider a mana-starved Cho'Gath bot lane against 2 ranged AD (or a ranged AD and support, more common). I lose the harass from my Q or W, and then last-hitting is hard, even when I tower hug... I feel like at that point it's smarter to get armor so I can last longer in team fights and flashgank if my lane partner can push with me.[/quote]

[quote=Mowen]If you're doing bad as ap stacking doran's ring or getting a catalyst to build into ROA usually helps. I wouldn't call not getting any kills with annie doing bad though, as long as you have good creep kills. Try just rushing a deathcap if you're having trouble killing your enemy in lane, but needlessly large rod will make you a force in teamfights without relying on snowballing. For ad if you're doing bad stacking doran's blades or buying a wriggle's usually helps. Again, get a BF sword if you're just farming and not getting kills.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]CS > Kills. If you're farming well, you're not failing. If you're getting farm and the opponent is not, you are winning. If you are getting farm AND kills, you are crushing.[/quote]

[quote=jacklyon]Ah for sure. In those situations I focus on my CS, but when they have high harass it's like FFFUUUUUU. Especially when I'm running out of mana playing Cho'Gath bot lane... I lose the counter-harass, and if I'm up against 2 ranged ADs it feels like GG.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]First of all, Cho Gath bot lane lols. Cho is tailor made to jungling and Solo laning. Not duo ^_^[/quote]

[quote=Virtus]Mejais O__O What? Why? My smurf is in that level range and in my memory I can remember only 1 Mejai's on a LeBlanc once. Go Catalyst-->level 1 boots(if you didn't start Boots+3HP)-->Rod of Ages-->level 2 boots. Survivability+AP. imo RoA is necessary on all mana-using AP champions. Only with Brand do I stack like 2/3 dorans rings and then go deathcap. As for getting armor, usually I don't build armor until I finish my deathcap, only because I can burst down their AD carry very fast and then run away. Later on, when you do start to get jumped on by off-tanks/tanky DPS, then you can get just a simple chainmail and make that a Zhonya's Hourglass if need be. MR: When I face an Akali, LeBlanc, or Kassadin, I rush a negatron cloak, which you need 740 gold for. Along with MR blue and a RoA, it should definitely tone down the insane burst damage from these assassins in lane and during teamfights. TLDR: FARM OP![/quote]

[quote=jacklyon]Haha well I do kind of a wonky start build with Annie, but at my summoner level it works really well. I start with Amp Tome+1 pot. This lets me survive any poke until lv 6, and gives me 10 more AP over Doran's. Last-hitting with Q makes sure I stay high on MP, so Doran's isn't really needed. First kill at level 6 usually, stunbear combo. I b, grab Mejai's, and rock faces for the rest of the game. Some times boots+more pots and a ward or two before Mejai's, depending on the champ. A good Brand, for example, requires me to have boots and pots in case I get caught in the AoE. Post-Mejais and Sorc Shoes I build RoA; I usually have RoA before 20 min mark.[/quote]

[quote=abzilla]I would say you should start with [[boots of speed]] and 3 [[health potion]], move into [[tear of the goddess]] or [[rabadon's deathcap]]. You'll want high AP quickly, don't go [[mejai's soulstealer]] unless you're certain you'll get those kills/assists. If the enemy is sustaining against you or they're being very harassy you have 3 options. 1) only focus on your CS and play as defensive as possible 2) ask for ganks constantly to make sure the enemy backs off 3) switch lanes I usually switch just because it's easier to do and it works quite well. So as [[annie]] always go fast AP and CS like mad. Hope this helps. [color=#008000]Pro trick[/color] - Always spam your [[incinerate]] and [[molten shield]] spells (Even if you're shooting the air) to get your stun ready for battle, you never know when an enemy will come.[/quote]

[quote=GoliathGTX][quote=jacklyon] Haha well I do kind of a wonky start build with Annie, but at my summoner level it works really well. I start with Amp Tome+1 pot. This lets me survive any poke until lv 6, and gives me 10 more AP over Doran's. Last-hitting with Q makes sure I stay high on MP, so Doran's isn't really needed. First kill at level 6 usually, stunbear combo. I b, grab Mejai's, and rock faces for the rest of the game. Some times boots+more pots and a ward or two before Mejai's, depending on the champ. A good Brand, for example, requires me to have boots and pots in case I get caught in the AoE. Post-Mejais and Sorc Shoes I build RoA; I usually have RoA before 20 min mark. [/quote] I do believe that Doran's Ring helps you better than Amp Tome. Amp tome gives you 10 AP more than Doran's but Doran's give you 100 HP and mana regen. HP helps you to win early trade-off(especially since you said you are playing aggressively in your first post) and out-sustained your opponent. I don't main Annie but I definitely played her before. Mana regen isn't something you should care about if you are playing defensive and farm style of Annie since your MP stays full last-hitting with Q but I do believe that mana regen helps if you are playing offensively and is trying to nuke your opponent's face off with spells after spells and I sometime pick up a kill before level 6 with it.[/quote]

[quote=InfHaRM]One of the big things people seem to be leaving out here is how often you're getting ganked effectively and whether or not the other team is getting fed. If you see 2 or maybe even 3 fed AD's on their team it's going to be worth that 2k to invest into a thornmail, or at least 700g to grab a chainvest. That's my opinion on it, but then again I'm not pro or close to it lol.[/quote]