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107 posts - page 11 of 11
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Should capital punishment be legal?
ShiftyCake
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SkidmarkD wrote:

Thort I was quite clear on what I view as rape and abuse. And for which I made the comment. So sad people get hung up on the letters and ignore the concept behind those letters.

@ Nameless (when she gets back): You were abused. I would not tell you to suck it up. I have the utmost respect for people getting out of that situation and still try to live a life worth living.

@ sirell: Not helping in the example you've given can and should be considered criminal negligence. And it also shows you've missed what I meant.

Maybe I'm biased, maybe not.
There be 3 women I know that were raped. 2 of them live a normal life. Has husband, has kids, has house and dog(s). I do not need to tell these women to suck it up, cause they already have.
One of them has attempted suicide several times now. Just because she can't get over what has happened 13 years ago. These people, not solely victims of rape, but people blaming the failure that has become their lives on that one single event, these people need to suck it up.


Anyways, back on topic:
Sending criminals away does not solve the problem.
You can either send them to populated area's, which make them someone elses problem. I'm not sure how you can be satisfied with this solution though, considering how much you value life.
Or you can send them to unpopulated area's. And today, if an area is unpopulated, it means people don't survive there. So basically, you are sending them to die. You are killing them, but you can sleep at night because you think you aren't, nature is.


People react to events in different ways, in different aspects, for different reasons.
To say that two people got over rape therefore everyone should be able to is the same as saying because two people learn one way then everyone should be able to.
No, people are different.
That one person might not have had the mental fortitude to just recover from such an event and go on with her life.

But none of that matters. What matters is that she IS still hurting, you just stated yourself she's tried to commit suicide multiple times. I don't care what your opinion is on such things as this, but if you don't try your utmost to help her then your just as bad as the person who did it to her in the first place.

Also, people can live in unpopulated area's you know. There was once a time when 'populated areas' did not exist. Just because we've been chained to this kind of life doesn't mean we can't live without it.
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DillButt64
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the military thing was a joke, its kinda obvious how handing criminals weapons and training them to be even better killers would end poorly
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Meiyjhe
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DillButt64 wrote:

the military thing was a joke, its kinda obvious how handing criminals weapons and training them to be even better killers would end poorly

But the core of the story is good. Make the criminals useful. I like the idea :D
Change is gooooood
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Searz
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DillButt64 wrote:

also i have no idea why sending them to a different place is really an option, we have prisons to send people to why send people over seas or whatever

It's an issue of resources. Most things get a lot easier if you don't.
Quoted:
what im surprised hasnt been considered is putting these people in the army in the front line, that way they get to murder as many people as they want and its k cuz war
ShiftyCake wrote:

What matters is that she IS still hurting, you just stated yourself she's tried to commit suicide multiple times. I don't care what your opinion is on such things as this, but if you don't try your utmost to help her then your just as bad as the person who did it to her in the first place.

Lol, what? That's ******ed XD
SkidmarkD wrote:

You are killing them, but you can sleep at night because you think you aren't, nature is.

This gives me an idea. Let's build a giant slingshot that slings people out into the sea or down cliffs. That way we're not actually killing anybody, just causing their deaths.
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ShiftyCake
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SkidmarkD wrote:

It's funny how you try to defend your point by saying that people react differently to similar situations, and just after that you say if people react differently, they are just as bad as the rapist.


Sigh, yes 'people' can live in unpopulated area's, but I highly doubt the common criminal can.


I didn't say if people react differently, they are just as bad as rapists.
I said if you didn't help people who have suffered like that, then you are just as bad as the rapist.
Read my words please. That is my opinion, whether you get it or not is fine but it's just what I believe.

And common criminals have more of a chance of surviving then citizens.
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Searz
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DillButt64 wrote:

also as someone that recently tried to commit suicide shifty is right

How do you know this?
DillButt64 wrote:

also Skid the whole "killers should be killed" mentality is stupid and wrong and doesnt fix anything, yeah you killed a killer but why not try to set the killer on the right path instead?

It's not stupid, nor wrong just because you're taking a moral stance against it.
Pheyniex wrote:

rehabilitation is usually a good way to treat criminals. even better is not making them criminals.

I agree that the best way of solving the problems is to take care of them in their infancy, but I disagree about rehabilitation.
The most effective way of dealing with criminals of severe enough a degree(read: enough to warrant a death penalty, as it's this thread's topic) is simply to kill them.
Rehabilitating them will probably take a lot of resources, and even then the end result isn't all that certain. They might have genetic tendencies towards violence and/or crime, so letting them reproduce or get into society again might end badly.

I'd be for it as long as they get rid of all the inefficiencies in the system, because the current death penalty is a huge resource hog..
SkidmarkD wrote:

In my sadistic little world they'll be tortured first, good thing that's not reality.

That would be pointless if anything. Why torture somebody when they're gonna be dead right after that?
It's just a pointless waste of resources. Just kill him/her instantly instead..
ShiftyCake wrote:

Let's say I split humanity into 3 parts.
One part would be the ones committing the act of degradation to another human being
One part would be the people who really don't care and leave them to wallow in self-pity because "they need to suck it up".
The last part, and let me tell you very minor, are the people who understand that ignoring the problem is the same as causing it.

Why? Lol.

That's not true no matter how you look at it.

There's more than a year of my life I'll never get back.

I nearly killed myself that year...more than once.

Do YOU know what it's like? just waiting for him to decide to take what he wants from you? Knowing it'll hurt and that you'll probably cry and that that'll just make it worse?

So, no...I am not going to just "get over it", thanks.

Please take note of the way he said it:
SkidmarkD wrote:

Rape is a one time event.
So it happened.
Get over it.
His statement only applies IF it was a one-time event.
Meiyjhe wrote:

Its not childish, its stupid :P
Rape sucks n stuff, but you can recover from it. Death is so permanent.

Agreed. Let's not compare them..
Meiyjhe wrote:

A person will always do what is best for himself

True. (sort of)
Quoted:
since humans are born to survive

False. (lol)

Everybody acts with the single goal of self-gratification. This can of course be an almost infinite number of different actions, as long as they make the person feel good.
Most people feel some kind of self-gratification when they help others(hence why they do it). This is also furthered by the way this person is raised. If he's raised by people who place a lot of value in helping others, then chances are that he's gonna feel better for doing so.


Also, terrible analogy and thoughts around it.
sirell wrote:

Allow me to illustrate a scenario that's fictional, but should help prove my point.

Imagine someone is beating you up (and let's say savagely to put emphasis on it) for no real reason; that is to say, you did nothing to deserve it and you were unable to fight back. Let us say for example that someone walks by and you cry out for help. Do you suppose it would be appropriate for them to turn around and say, 'suck it up, get over it and deal with it'?

I feel such a response would be deemed inhuman.

When someone is raped or is affected by a murder, if you are even remotely human, you do not say the words, 'suck it up and deal with it'.

I'm pretty sure that's a terrible example. Not saying that I agree with him, but he clearly didn't mean it that way.

Also, as others pointed out: terrible use of the word human.
sirell wrote:

If we talk of death as a permanent end to life (no afterlife, just void), the question arises whether death is a bad thing or, in this case, whether death is better or worse than life.

To paraphrase what otherwise would be a slightly long-winded argument, if we were to measure life experiences as positive aspects, then death quite obviously has no quantitative value. The experience of death does not add to your experiences. On the other hand, the experiences of being alive can be easily quantified with a positive value. When the value of death is compared with the value of being alive, you are comparing something which is meaningless to something which can and is assigned positive meaning.

Now, you may say ask, why does this make life any better than death? In addition, there can be life experiences which arguably subtract from your life experiences (being in a coma, amnesia, etc) or which cannot be agreed upon as adding to life (constant pains). But the point is not this. When you are alive, there is always a chance that life may get better for you, no matter how bad. Death is the complete and absolute deprivation of all positive aspects. It is a tragedy, even if it's an inevitable one.

There is a reason why we mourn the dead. They lose out on what they could have had or could have been if they continued living or had their bodies not failed them.

By that same reasoning negative experiences can make death better than life.

Death can be both good and bad. I think it would be silly to label it as solely negative.
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens
DillButt64
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Searz wrote:


How do you know this?

It's not stupid, nor wrong just because you're taking a moral stance against it.




i meant me, i probably shoulda threw a comma in there or something my bad, and my situation is probably going to be different than other peoples but yeah for the most part what shifty said was what was happening with me

i meant its stupid because it doesnt fix anything, the death penalty has been proven that it doesnt deter criminals, and its much more expensive than trying to set the criminal on the right path (like a life sentence and whatever else they can use to "fix" the criminal) yeah killing him sounds like a good idea but it, like you said, is a waste of resources in its current state

me saying i think its wrong is a moral stand but the fact that it doesnt fix anything due to it being cost inefficient and not deterring others from crimes doesnt really have to do with a moral stand

Source for the death penalty not detering crime:
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/facts-about-deterrence-and-death-penalty
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