National Pride/Identity

[quote=FatelBlade][quote=GrandmasterD][quote=Latest Legend]Looks like Fatel finally got one of those threads up and going. [quote=GrandmasterD]Is it even possible to care for all individuals equally, even those who are so far away from you that they will never see or hear from you, let alone speak to you? I don't think the human mind is designed to ever accomplish that, but I could be wrong on that.[/quote]Homo homini lupus est, one of a social government's main purposes is to make the people inside stop doing horrible things to each-other. Nationalism is a tool in accomplishing this, not the other way around. It's not people loving a country, it's a country telling its people to love it. Just stuff children's heads full of a concept and they'll blindly believe it for the rest of their lives if you're a bit lucky. Let's not turn the concept around. There are other tools to accomplish this, like good laws, good law enforcement and a notion of individual respect to stuff in children's heads. I think it's a lot less destructive than nationalism. Nationalism can easily be used to manipulate people. There are real live experiments going on researching just that, I hear the total amount of subjects is big enough to fill like a continent, and it's still expanding! :^)[/quote] I agree, but that doesn't mean nationalism can't have its usefulness; I wouldn't write it off completely. [quote=FatelBlade][color=#FF0000]People always shitting on Americans[/color] and what not based on these negative stories, without considering both sides of the coin. I have experienced the most diverse case of people that are all accepted.[/quote] That highlighted part is exactly what we're talking about; you are attempting to use nationalism/patriotism here to your advantage, by implying that people here are addressing all Americans, rather than just talking about specific situations or individuals who may be American; there's a difference. There's various groups in the United States who believe so strongly that their country is the best there ever was that they fail to see the obvious flaws in it, even go so far as to state that anything that contradicts their world-view is simply non-existent (see: “You are fake news!”). We are not talking about all Americans; there's a bunch who believe Fox News is there to spread lies, and there's a group who watches Fox News every day, taking every word for granted, that should be a clear indication that there's sub-groups within the major group that encompasses all Americans.[/quote] "That said, I think Americans are pretty poor nationalists." I was referring to this. If you don't think this refers to all of them then its fine and I;ll stop wasting my time with you.[/quote]

[quote=The_Nameless_Bard]The problem with all of this is that the US is a rather large country, physically. Making any blanket statements about it is a bad idea because of this. In some places what you say about people being accepted is true, but in other places many people experience discrimination on a daily basis simply because they are "not normal".[/quote]

[quote=FatelBlade]A lot of people aren't normal. The question isn't that someone is not normal, its what flavor of not normal and how they act about it. Though I do agree that you have areas full of retards.[/quote]

[quote=Latest Legend]Okay, okay, I admit. I was and still am deeply convinced of the fact that every single person residing in the United States is a short-minded, sexist, racist, whatever-else-you-can-discriminate-ist pig and I look down on every single one of them, and because I was confronted by someone with a different opinion, I got scared to stand up for and/or felt embarrassed for my own view and quickly tried to brush it off as a joke. I humbly apologize and will make sure not to inconvenience you again. In all seriousness, I firmly believe you just said something pretty dumb and I'm quite astonished that you believe, for example, racism isn't a prevalent (no, not everyone, no, not everywhere, but, compared to other countries and/or the standard "no racism", it's quite a bit) thing in the US. Then again, I wouldn't be surprised if you'd tell me it's just as much of a hoax as climate change is. I don't see how you think it's appropriate to include such an unnecessary amount of ad hominem in your arguments (it's very annoying, as you may experience while reading this post), and I don't see why I, or anyone else, should be bothered to discuss with someone who does. So I'm done here. For your understanding: the first paragraph is comical.[/quote]

[quote=FatelBlade]I don't know where you're from, but you're just another typical racist European that assumes that Americans are more racist. I seriously believe that you are an idiot that likes to believe in your own superiority. There are parts in the US that are backwards, and there are parts that are more progressive. However, this constant European attitude is one of racism. Constantly parroting that the US is racist or stupid or anything similar. The standard isn't "no racism". The standard is a fuck ton of racism and overall, the US is less racist than many European countries.[/quote]

[quote=Jovy]It's fine to discuss controversial topics, but let's try to keep things civil. Edited some parts of your comment Fatel. Not Legends but you are being rude too so let's just either stop doing that or stop commenting.[/quote]

[quote=Meiyjhe][quote=FatelBlade]The standard isn't "no racism". The standard is a fuck ton of racism and overall, the US is less racist than many European countries.[/quote]Aren't you being hypocritical here? [quote=Latest Legend]In all seriousness, I firmly believe you just said something pretty dumb and I'm quite astonished that you believe, for example, racism isn't a prevalent thing in the US.[/quote]Honestly I disagree with you here. What I think is the case with racism and other exclusive ideals is that it is very much driven by social circles. In the Netherlands for example I can pinpoint some villages that are incredibly racist and show a lack of tolerance whereas the majority will prove to be more accepting. Same can be said for America where NY in general is very accepting while Texas (from what I have heard from people going there) is much less accepting. The big difference here though is that a continent like Europe is very dense and people can choose more easily to go where they feel accepted, for America this is much more complicated as the difference in distance is much more severe. This makes it much more difficult for 'foreign' residents to deal with racism; jobs and family are usually location bound and moving would more often require you to leave these things behind. This in Europe is not an issue as people can simply decide to live in another city without much of a distance barrier. This does mean that in America racism is a bigger problem even when the racist to non-racist ratio would be the same as in Europe, simply because of the size of the country. [quote=GrandmasterD]I think that, not only from those standpoints, nationalism has purpose, but it also, as stated, gives people a reason to actually stick with their group (i.e. their countries) and attempt to improve them, rather than keep moving about and around, until eventually everything sucks. It inspires and promotes collaboration, and that's pretty good.[/quote]This I find an interesting point and I have been wondering about this myself for quite a bit. In Macedonia for example I noticed that a lot of people want to leave their country as they feel that it is a shithole on a social and political level and want to live somewhere better. You could argue here that nationalism would motivate them to stay and work to make the country a better place to live in, which I can agree with on some level. On the flip side people should do what they feel most comfortable doing. In that sense I definitely agree with you. If someone has a healthy amount of nationalism and willpower would do their best to develop their country, that should definitely be applauded. They are taking a road not many want to take after all, doing their best to make their country a better place to live in. Being within the healthy amount of nationalism just seems to be a very hard thing to accomplish.[/quote]

[quote=DreamingInRed][quote=FatelBlade]People always shitting on Americans and what not based on these negative stories, without considering both sides of the coin. I have experienced the most diverse case of people that are all accepted.[/quote] Entering a victim role now? And yeah, people laugh at America right now because you elected one of the greatest idiots to ever enter politics as your president, and you elected him because of his openly celebrated "patriotism" *cough* racism and xenophobia *cough*. If we ever need more proof that nationalism is inherently a shitty thing, you Americans are delivering daily. As are Hungary, Turkey, France and many more. And by the way, now that you figured out that people are diverse, where is the reason for nationalism if people from your country are not all great and worth supporting?[/quote]

[quote=The_Nameless_Bard]I'm also curious as to how some forms of discrimination are justified if someone is "too abnormal".[/quote]

[quote=FatelBlade]Someone that stalks little children is abnormal and should be discriminated against. Someone that enjoys sexual things to random people on the sidewalk is abnormal and should be discriminated against. Someone that wants to show everyone sexual or graphic images is abnormal and should be discriminated against. Someone that wants to walk around nude and/or flash random people is abnormal and should be discriminated against. [mention=DreamingInRed] Do you have a peepee in your throat? Seem to be coughing quite a bit there. Don't pretend for one second that the mocking and laughing started because Donald Trump was elected president. It happened with Obama, it happened with Bush, and it happened with Clinton. Stating that he won because of blatant racism just shows that you barely read headlines and make informed opinions about it. You don't see me coming, learning about whatever shithole you're from, and shittalking your political situation and culture. I don't get your last point about nationalism and diversity.[/quote]