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Dude you make no effing sense. One minute you say that we are born a certain way since we are fetuses and we cant help being mass murders blah blah blah. This would constitute NATURE. Then you say that it is all a product of having a tortured childhood. This would be NURTURE. There is no definitive answer to which is the most prevalent cause of behavior. The smartest people in the world can't answer the question so I am sure as heck you don't know the answer. Especially when you say it is 100% one cause vs the other.
We all have bad lives in one way or another. I don't think any of us just want to kill anyone, even bad people. If an intruder came into my house, I would shoot him. I would not hesitate. I would shoot him. If he lived great! But I am not going to risk the lives of the ones I love or even myself for a person that is doing something wrong or illegal.
The point is we don't enjoy killing. But if I can stop a rapist from getting one more child you better believe me buddy. Ill blow his frigging head off. It's not about you or even the criminal at that point. Its about protecting others.
Until you understand what it is to love someone more than yourself you will never understand why a father would risk going to jail (which is ******ed BTW) by shooting a thief every time. And if you say that you wouldn't your basically saying you would let a person come in and rape your wife and children and forgive him because its not really his fault. Hes just insane. He was raped as a child so he has to do it.
Well guess what ******. If we had that mentality everyone would rape everyone else all the time. People would murder each other. The point of frigging rules is to maintain order. If a dog bites someone I really wouldn't blame the dog. Some dogs are wired that way. I wouldn't compare that to a human. However, even if you did come the behavioral psychosis of it then we are still right. The dog gets put down. Not because its his fault. Its because he is a danger to society.
If you can rehabilitate fine. Get them the frick out of society where they belong.
We all have bad lives in one way or another. I don't think any of us just want to kill anyone, even bad people. If an intruder came into my house, I would shoot him. I would not hesitate. I would shoot him. If he lived great! But I am not going to risk the lives of the ones I love or even myself for a person that is doing something wrong or illegal.
The point is we don't enjoy killing. But if I can stop a rapist from getting one more child you better believe me buddy. Ill blow his frigging head off. It's not about you or even the criminal at that point. Its about protecting others.
Until you understand what it is to love someone more than yourself you will never understand why a father would risk going to jail (which is ******ed BTW) by shooting a thief every time. And if you say that you wouldn't your basically saying you would let a person come in and rape your wife and children and forgive him because its not really his fault. Hes just insane. He was raped as a child so he has to do it.
Well guess what ******. If we had that mentality everyone would rape everyone else all the time. People would murder each other. The point of frigging rules is to maintain order. If a dog bites someone I really wouldn't blame the dog. Some dogs are wired that way. I wouldn't compare that to a human. However, even if you did come the behavioral psychosis of it then we are still right. The dog gets put down. Not because its his fault. Its because he is a danger to society.
If you can rehabilitate fine. Get them the frick out of society where they belong.
Join me, or fall forever
Canoas
<Member>
<Member>
No.. please read properly. I said that our environment influences the way we develop from the moment we are made. We all have a certain genetic predisposition, and it is highly influenced by the environment we are raised in. Being in your mother's womb does not protect you against that environment and also directly affects your development. The development does not end at birth either, our brains keep evolving years after we were born and the environment we grow up in will change a child.
And WTF are you talking about? Killing someone in self-defence or while protecting someone else is completely different from being a serial killer nor a sociopath. It is not what we're discussing and has nothing to do with the debate.
The rules and morality exist but not everyone is able to follow those rules. Please go look at the definition of psychopath and sociopath.
Just like B-wong you've managed to prove your stupidity and ignorance. I would give you my congratulations but that is not remarkable at all, mentally challenged people do it all the time.
EDIT: Still, please show me the studies that you conducted or followed or read that corroborate what your saying. I mean, if it's true then there should be tons right? Unfortunately for you there is not one single study that will prove you're right. You're just plain wrong. It doesn't matter what you think, you can't change the facts.
And no, they shouldn't be put down. What do you think will happen to the children who were raised knowing their father was killed by the society they live in? Yes, very good, create violent people, it will surely solve our problem.
But I mean, who would want to change them when you can just kill them? It's so much easier to put a bullet in their heads.
Sociopaths have a genetic predisposition to commit violent crimes, in some that predisposition is stronger and in others it's weaker. But it still is just a predisposition and can be overcome with the right counselling and environment. Just like a drug addict will never be able to stop consuming on his own, but with the help of professionals it is possible to get rid of that addiction.
And regarding your comparison with dogs, horses with broken legs are also put down. Do you think that people who break a leg or an arm should be killed along with the murderers? Or that if I bite someone I should be killed as well?
Animals' lives can't be compared to humans'. If a person poses a threat to society he can still be treated, and in my opinion it's worth the treatment. If an animal is a danger to society then he gets no second chance, because he's an animal.
And WTF are you talking about? Killing someone in self-defence or while protecting someone else is completely different from being a serial killer nor a sociopath. It is not what we're discussing and has nothing to do with the debate.
The rules and morality exist but not everyone is able to follow those rules. Please go look at the definition of psychopath and sociopath.
Just like B-wong you've managed to prove your stupidity and ignorance. I would give you my congratulations but that is not remarkable at all, mentally challenged people do it all the time.
EDIT: Still, please show me the studies that you conducted or followed or read that corroborate what your saying. I mean, if it's true then there should be tons right? Unfortunately for you there is not one single study that will prove you're right. You're just plain wrong. It doesn't matter what you think, you can't change the facts.
And no, they shouldn't be put down. What do you think will happen to the children who were raised knowing their father was killed by the society they live in? Yes, very good, create violent people, it will surely solve our problem.
But I mean, who would want to change them when you can just kill them? It's so much easier to put a bullet in their heads.
Sociopaths have a genetic predisposition to commit violent crimes, in some that predisposition is stronger and in others it's weaker. But it still is just a predisposition and can be overcome with the right counselling and environment. Just like a drug addict will never be able to stop consuming on his own, but with the help of professionals it is possible to get rid of that addiction.
And regarding your comparison with dogs, horses with broken legs are also put down. Do you think that people who break a leg or an arm should be killed along with the murderers? Or that if I bite someone I should be killed as well?
Animals' lives can't be compared to humans'. If a person poses a threat to society he can still be treated, and in my opinion it's worth the treatment. If an animal is a danger to society then he gets no second chance, because he's an animal.
You can say what you like. You can cite all the studies in the world +1. What they do is wrong. They choose to do it. People are not robots only reacting to outside stimuli. People have a choice. They make them every day. Our lives are nothing but a series of choices. When a child lies they know its wrong. Everyone has some innate sense of morality.
To say that someone simply cannot follow the rules of society is wholly unacceptable to me. If they cannot then they should be executed immediately as there is no hope of rehabilitation. I find it odd how you state that then edit to say that counseling can help. I don't understand how you profess such and unchangeable unmoveable disturbance in their psyche that causes them to be this way and then say that it is remedied by counsel.
I believe they can be helped. I believe that sometimes they can become "good" "productive" members of society. And I truly do hope that they can be helped. However, people who murder are judged and sentenced. Insane people, should be judged just like everyone else. Who in their right mind is not at least a little crazy when they kill someone. A father that kills in revenge for a daughter that was raped would be sent to prison for the rest of his life. I wouldn't consider him sane when he did it. Everyone should get the same treatment by the law regardless of sanity, color, size, or any other measureable attribute. To say the law is subjective is demeaning it just like every insanity plea in history has demeaned it.
The law as they say is the law. If a sane person commited 5 murders he would be shot, imprisoned for life, or executed in at least a few states. But no. The "insane" can do it and be given pudding and counseled for ten years and get out becoming "productive" again.
I truly feel sympathy for these people, the ones abused and neglected. I am a very giving person. I help whenever I can. I take in strays. I am pretty much a boyscout. And there is something you need to understand. It is more important to protect the innocent than the evil. Regardless, of wether or not they can be changed.
In a perfect world, we could do anything. In this world we cannot. B-Wong is right. You can cite whatever you like. You can do whatever you want. Justify, make excuses, go and rehabilitate them. They see evil and at that moment they are given a choice. Mimic the evil and one day become it. Or to be a better person. Growing stronger than the weak. You said im stupid for saying they are the weak ones. You are wrong. They may not have the cushy house or a loving parent. But people grow up in those circumstances every day.
My wife's father beat them, cheated on her mother, did drugs, was a lush and guess what. It destroyed her mother. Her mother is a drug addict drunk loser. So is her brother. She makes around 60k and has a stable job. She is drug free doesnt drink or smoke. She doesnt even drink coffee. Why? Because her father and her mother were losers. Wait a second. That means she should be a loser. But she isn't. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
You have studies. I have real life experience. So STFU.
To say that someone simply cannot follow the rules of society is wholly unacceptable to me. If they cannot then they should be executed immediately as there is no hope of rehabilitation. I find it odd how you state that then edit to say that counseling can help. I don't understand how you profess such and unchangeable unmoveable disturbance in their psyche that causes them to be this way and then say that it is remedied by counsel.
I believe they can be helped. I believe that sometimes they can become "good" "productive" members of society. And I truly do hope that they can be helped. However, people who murder are judged and sentenced. Insane people, should be judged just like everyone else. Who in their right mind is not at least a little crazy when they kill someone. A father that kills in revenge for a daughter that was raped would be sent to prison for the rest of his life. I wouldn't consider him sane when he did it. Everyone should get the same treatment by the law regardless of sanity, color, size, or any other measureable attribute. To say the law is subjective is demeaning it just like every insanity plea in history has demeaned it.
The law as they say is the law. If a sane person commited 5 murders he would be shot, imprisoned for life, or executed in at least a few states. But no. The "insane" can do it and be given pudding and counseled for ten years and get out becoming "productive" again.
I truly feel sympathy for these people, the ones abused and neglected. I am a very giving person. I help whenever I can. I take in strays. I am pretty much a boyscout. And there is something you need to understand. It is more important to protect the innocent than the evil. Regardless, of wether or not they can be changed.
In a perfect world, we could do anything. In this world we cannot. B-Wong is right. You can cite whatever you like. You can do whatever you want. Justify, make excuses, go and rehabilitate them. They see evil and at that moment they are given a choice. Mimic the evil and one day become it. Or to be a better person. Growing stronger than the weak. You said im stupid for saying they are the weak ones. You are wrong. They may not have the cushy house or a loving parent. But people grow up in those circumstances every day.
My wife's father beat them, cheated on her mother, did drugs, was a lush and guess what. It destroyed her mother. Her mother is a drug addict drunk loser. So is her brother. She makes around 60k and has a stable job. She is drug free doesnt drink or smoke. She doesnt even drink coffee. Why? Because her father and her mother were losers. Wait a second. That means she should be a loser. But she isn't. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
You have studies. I have real life experience. So STFU.
Join me, or fall forever
Canoas
<Member>
<Member>
You don't have real life experience, the only thing you have is stupidity.
Tell me, was your wife raped and tortured by her father? Did she watch her family members get killed right before her eyes? I really doubt it. You think being beaten is the worse than can happen. Guess what? It's not. There are a thousand things worse than that.
One thing is being beaten, another is being subject to severe child abuse.
If those people have predispositions towards violence they should be helped, not killed. What you're doing is punish someone who's doing something because he's being forced to, by his own development. Why are soldiers, who kill way more than any serial killer ever will, given medals while someone who did it because he's insane is given a bullet on his head? The insane, much like the soldier, had no choice. An insane person, however, can be treated while a soldier cannot.
Your head is full of ********. You don't understand how the human mind works at all. You speak as if you've done countless researches on the matter but the only case you've seen is your wife, who has nothing to do with severely abused children.
Again, good job on showing your ignorance and stupidity.
Tell me, was your wife raped and tortured by her father? Did she watch her family members get killed right before her eyes? I really doubt it. You think being beaten is the worse than can happen. Guess what? It's not. There are a thousand things worse than that.
One thing is being beaten, another is being subject to severe child abuse.
If those people have predispositions towards violence they should be helped, not killed. What you're doing is punish someone who's doing something because he's being forced to, by his own development. Why are soldiers, who kill way more than any serial killer ever will, given medals while someone who did it because he's insane is given a bullet on his head? The insane, much like the soldier, had no choice. An insane person, however, can be treated while a soldier cannot.
Your head is full of ********. You don't understand how the human mind works at all. You speak as if you've done countless researches on the matter but the only case you've seen is your wife, who has nothing to do with severely abused children.
Again, good job on showing your ignorance and stupidity.
A study done in Montreal with suicide victims looked at autopsies of the brains of these people and it turned out that if a suicide victim, which are usually young adults, had been abused as a child, the abuse actually caused a genetic change in the brain that was absent in the brains of people that had not been abused.
You're telling me that abuse victims can, by sheer willpower, physically change the anatomy of their brains? Really? Do you actually believe that? You can't change your brain, otherwise by now I'd have a super brain that gave me super strength, super speed and the ability to fly.
@Toshabi
I meant a victim's family. Wouldn't that be just painful for them? If they feel pleasure by watching someone get killed in front of them then how are they any different than the murderer?
Here's the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_5nLxZVoPo. Sorry for the fake one = P
EDIT:
"They had a bad childhood and that influenced them". Well it should influence them to never be the ****ing idiot that the others were for being so cruel.
Sure, makes total sense. If you are born in a place where if you trust others they will hurt you then you will grow up to be someone who shows empathy towards everyone so he won't be like those around him.
WHERE DOES THAT EVEN MAKE SENSE? Have you even heard about Darwin? Survival of the fittest? Does it ring a bell to you?
So when I have kids I should beat them to the brink of death every single day, just so they grow up as non-violent as possible. I mean, the pain will help them learn that people don't like to be beaten, right?
If you think that way you have to be arrested. You are the first person in the whole fcking world to even mention that being raped and tortured while growing up will make someone a better person. I sincerely hope you never have kids, what horrible things will you do to them. Your twisted mind is one of a kind.
EDIT: Found another study. In New Zealand there was a study that was done in a town called Dunedin in which a few thousand individuals were studied form birth up to their 20s. What they found was that they could identify a genetic mutation, an abnormal gene, which was related to the predisposition to commit violence, but only if the individual had also been subjected to severe child abuse.
Children with this gene had a lower rate of violence than most people, but if they were abused as children they would grow up to be much more violent than the rest of us.
Now, since all you've said is ******** based on no facts at all, can you please refer any studies or anyone at all that confirms that people who suffered severe abuse as children are no more likely to turn into violence than the rest of us? Or that they have the same choices we do? Because until now the only thing you've proved is your ignorance.