The New DFG?

[quote=caucheka]to do the math old: 30 + 3.5 x 7 = 54.5 new: 25 + 4.0 x 7 = 53.0 old: 30 + 3.5 x 10 = 65 new: 25 + 4.0 x 10 = 65[/quote]

[quote=lifebaka][quote=caucheka] to do the math old: 30 + 3.5 x 7 = 54.5 new: 25 + 4.0 x 7 = 53.0 old: 30 + 3.5 x 10 = 65 new: 25 + 4.0 x 10 = 65 [/quote] That's not the math I was doing, though. You're not accounting for the fact that the new DFG also gives more AP, so sometime a bit over 900 other AP it's going to overtake the old DFG, due to its extra 20 AP. Since we don't have to care necessarily what the actual damage output is, I set them equal to each other and solve for the required AP value. So we've got either the scenario where you've built a Deathcap: [indent].30 + (AP + 60*1.35) * 0.035 / 100 = .25 + (AP + 80*1.35) * 0.04 / 100[/indent] or the scenario without a Deathcap: [indent].30 + (AP + 60*1.05) * 0.035 / 100 = .25 + (AP + 80*1.05) * 0.04 / 100[/indent] The first scenario gives us an AP of exactly 703. If you have over 703 AP, including a Deathcap, and then buy the new DFG, you do more damage than if you buy the old DFG. The second scenario gives us an AP of exactly 769. If you have over 769 AP, without a Deathcap, and then buy the new DFG, you do more damage than if you buy the old DFG.[/quote]

[quote=The Overmyynd]I rush DFG as veigar and build to higher ap from there. WANTS MY COMBO!!!![/quote]

[quote=caucheka][quote=lifebaka] That's not the math I was doing, though. You're not accounting for the fact that the new DFG also gives more AP, so sometime a bit over 900 other AP it's going to overtake the old DFG, due to its extra 20 AP. Since we don't have to care necessarily what the actual damage output is, I set them equal to each other and solve for the required AP value. So we've got either the scenario where you've built a Deathcap: [indent].30 + (AP + 60*1.35) * 0.035 / 100 = .25 + (AP + 80*1.35) * 0.04 / 100[/indent] or the scenario without a Deathcap: [indent].30 + (AP + 60*1.05) * 0.035 / 100 = .25 + (AP + 80*1.05) * 0.04 / 100[/indent] The first scenario gives us an AP of exactly 703. If you have over 703 AP, including a Deathcap, and then buy the new DFG, you do more damage than if you buy the old DFG. The second scenario gives us an AP of exactly 769. If you have over 769 AP, without a Deathcap, and then buy the new DFG, you do more damage than if you buy the old DFG. [/quote] what? im talking about ap in total. you need 1k ap for it to do the same as before. for each 100 ap, you are getting closer by .5%, and since the base is lower by 5, thats 10 times (.5 x 10 = 5) that you need to get 100 ap, or 1k ap.[/quote]

[quote=Temzilla]DFG has actually been pretty OP on most mid champions for a long time.[/quote]

[quote=lifebaka][quote=caucheka] what? im talking about ap in total. you need 1k ap for it to do the same as before. for each 100 ap, you are getting closer by .5%, and since the base is lower by 5, thats 10 times (.5 x 10 = 5) that you need to get 100 ap, or 1k ap. [/quote] Again, the two items have [i]different amounts of AP on them[/i]. So while they might do the same amount of damage at exactly 1k AP, [i]every build including DFG gained 20 AP[/i] (not including multipliers); it's not possible for any single build to both have given exactly 1k AP and still give exactly 1k AP. This is why I've been looking at the amount of AP [i]not given by DFG[/i].[/quote]

[quote=caucheka]what? i have no idea what you're saying. yeah 20 ap is 20 ap. doesnt change the fact that the active needs 1k ap to be as good as it was.[/quote]

[quote=JMastiff]There is some info already about competetive power of dfg http://www.reignofgaming.net/blogs/a-different-view/thebirdofprey/20150-deathfire-grasp-vs-rabadons-deathcap[/quote]

[quote=Temzilla][quote=caucheka] what? i have no idea what you're saying. yeah 20 ap is 20 ap. doesnt change the fact that the active needs 1k ap to be as good as it was. [/quote] No, that all depends on the health of the enemy champion, the amount of AP scaling on your champion, how low your champion's cooldowns are, and wether or not your champion has a large amount of burst potential. The proc isn't why you buy DFG, it's the proc combined with it being dirt cheap because of Kages, and it giving 80ap and 15% cdr in a single item. It's just so powerful because it gives you everything an AP caster would want from an item other than mana regen, which is solved through other means.[/quote]

[quote=Zeprido]What matters is that its more viable on champions without mana now.[/quote]