With the new defensive masteries being kinda...

[quote=Werepirelord]I'm talking about junglers like [[Nautilus]], [[Sejuani]] or [[Amumu]] who, apart from their [[Sunfire Cape]] + [[Abyssal Scepter]] combo don't really look into dealing that much damage and mostly want to dish out cc and soak damage for their teammates. Now, this is what I came up with for a 0/21/9 mastery page, altough I this the latter (0/9/21) might prove more useful. http://preseason.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/masteries.html#0.2yKrmtB.3ZTm42Acr.0 http://preseason.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/masteries.html#0.3Cvo_ae.1ox_J.7TjbymLE0 Culinary Master gives bonus resilience for a Machete + 5 Pots/Biscuit start, the big boost in movement speed sets up for quick ganks and the bonus gold gains help since you neither jungle fast nor amount a lot of kills (altough you should amass a good amount of assists). The 2 points in vampirism are more of a spare point allocation but this seems a lot more solid than the 0/21/9 page, especially for setting up ganks. Any kind of insights you might want to share?[/quote]

[quote=Vynertje]Some defensive masteries are quite nice though. +4 armor + 2 mr for every enemy champion nearby in defense is really good, and I doubt if 21 utility is good enough to warrant the 0 offense and little defense.[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD]Defence tree is ridiculously strong in S4, I wouldn't pass on it.[/quote]

[quote=Jovy]New defence tree is really good imho.[/quote]

[quote=Vynertje]I'm working on some jungle pages: This would be my standard one for tanky junglers: http://preseason.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/masteries.html#0.23KAYI.2NMi6Cpr.0 This would probably be the new tanky 21/9/0, but I doubt if it would be any good: http://preseason.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/masteries.html#4QBNGzetO.14SA9P7T8.0.0 I suspect this will be the standard 9/21/0 page: http://preseason.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/masteries.html#9L4Aedv0.23KAYI.2NMhwGe0.0[/quote]

[quote=Werepirelord]I do agree that Tenacious is really good, but CC mitigation, whilst still very useful is not that needed on tanks. Fleet of foot is too good to pass up, and the last point in Utility is really good, judging from my experience with [[Nautilus]], buying the out-of-combat boots is almost worth it really early. To be honest apart form Tier 1 and Tenacious, the defense tree isn't very whelming. I'd love to be proven wrong though, so tell me if you would why the defense tree is so good.[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=Werepirelord] I do agree that Tenacious is really good, but CC mitigation, whilst still very useful is not that needed on tanks. Fleet of foot is too good to pass up, and the last point in Utility is really good, judging from my experience with [[Nautilus]], buying the out-of-combat boots is almost worth it really early. To be honest apart form Tier 1 and Tenacious, the defense tree isn't very whelming. I'd love to be proven wrong though, so tell me if you would why the defense tree is so good. [/quote] Legendary Guardian Second Wind Juggernaut Reinforced Armor Evasive[/quote]

[quote=Werepirelord]Considering that you get Fleet of Foot, Summoner's Insight, Runic Affinity, Wanderer, INtelligence and possibly Greed and Culinary Master in Utility, I'm not that convinced. Evasive isn't that great in my opinion, altough since tank's will probably take a lot of AoE damage it might very well be good. Please take in mind that we're talking Support/Tank junglers here. I'd rather have Wanderer than Legendary Guardian. Second Wind does seem to niche to work, so champions like [[Maokai]] will probably want it, but [[Sejuani]]/[[Amumu]]/[[Nautilus]] don't really want it without having someone with a strong heal, which arn't as often seen. Might become relevant if Warmog gets buffed. I see your point, but really, most of the good stuff in the defensive tree is found in Tier 1. Since Bladed Armor is kinda useless anyways, one might very well go Block-Tough Skin-Unyielding-Vetsie Scars-Juggernaut and spend 21 points in Utility. You guys are very well above me, so I guess I'm just unable to see something big here, but I think I'll be using 0/9/21 pages for my tanky support junglers.[/quote]

[quote=Phoenix0000ff]Tenacious is really good - Everyone Here's what I think. Fiddlesticks fear / Rammus taunt = 3 second cc With a tenacity item fear lasts 1.95 seconds (not bad) With tenacious fear lasts 2.55 seconds (big whoop) With both a tenacity item and tenacious fear lasts 1.66 seconds (Good but only .29 seconds off a cc when you're probably going to be buying Merc Treads / Spirit of The Ancient Golem anyway) .29 off fear .2 off a 2 second cc? What you going to do with .2 seconds? Take 100k burst? I don't think so I am critical of this tenacious and its multiplicative* stacking *Not 100% sure if it's multiplicative as in season 3[/quote]

[quote=Vynertje][quote=Phoenix0000ff] Tenacious is really good - Everyone [/quote] Tenacious in S4 isn't the tenacity mastery, frankly. Legendary guardian is the 15% tenacity, tenacious gives 4 armor and 2 magic resist for every nearby champion.[/quote]