Vynertje's Support AMA and advice thread

[quote=OTGBionicArm]My main point being that Zyra's main source of CC is incredibly easy to dodge and hard to fish with, and she practically has to get into suicide range to get a good ult off. Combine this with her faring worse than the rest of the mage supports if she gets behind or cant build damage. (Vel continues doing decent damage even on a mostly support build, and as mentioned, Lux simply has more direct utility outside of her damage or CC due to her shield.) Dont get me wrong. I love Zyra, but you cant really tell me shes as easy to consistently do well with as the likes of [[Vel'Koz]], or [[Lux]]. I think even [[Brand]] has an easier time not getting gimped. I'd like Vyn's input on the matter though. I'm just thinking out loud.[/quote]

[quote=Mooninites]Zyra's cc is one aspect of her kit, a lot of her power is in her harass and zoning potential not landing a grasping root. I have pretty much never had a problem getting a good zyra ult down, you should be using it to zone and peel, not as a form of engage. Lux is absolute garbage if she is behind, both as a support and mid laner, it's actually one of lux's biggest problems; if she falls behind her damage is negligble. Vel'koz probably does more damage if behind just because of his passive, but like I said, he doesn't bring the same utility zyra does. If you're behind who would rather have on your team; zyra, lux, or vel'koz? 100% of the time I'm picking zyra because she brings far superior utility out of the 3. I will absolutely tell you with 100% certainty that it is easier to do consistently well with zyra support than velkoz or lux. Brand is a pretty good support, maybe even better than zyra, definitely better than velk and lux. Velkoz and lux are more on the fringe of viability in the support role[/quote]

[quote=Vynertje]To chime in on the discussion, Lux is in the same state as Zyra, with the only differences being that Lux has slightly longer range (is slightly safer in lane) but is MUCH more item dependant (zyra really only needs Liandry's before she's an effective damage dealer). I think Vel'Koz suffers the exact same issues as Zyra, but he does that while having 1) quite significantly longer range and 2) a much larger teamfight threat due to his true damage. Therefore he is in a bit better state but by no means great either I think. Anyway, some impressions on the support changes right now (only for the champions I have played with/against so far): [[Thresh]] seems like the uncontested #1 pick for now, his strength is that he synergizes with all of the ADC's out there. Synergy is more important than ever because of the very distinctive strengths/weaknesses of each ADC and Thresh is like a "one size fits all" for support choices right now. [[nami]]/[[janna]]: do the same they did before but slightly better. I don't think they will suddenly make a jump in popularity but especially Janna will see some play if the ADC's she works well with are well balanced. Nami still has a number of core weaknesses which I think hold her down a bit. [[leona]]: From the 3 games I played her, she seems MUCH better because of the dominant ADC's out there. I'll touch on this a little bit later, but I feel like caster ADC's are the way to go right now and she synergizes with them so well. Furthermore, the snowbally nature of the game at this stage also seems to fit her very well. Finally, the ability to go 18 points in resolve (defence) without sacrificing the necessary utility goodies is really nice too. [[morgana]]: not much better or worse than before, therefore worse in relative terms. The fact that she can more easily afford AP items like hourglass is a slight boost though, and she may see rise again once hypercarries are buffed a bit (or just as a counter to leona lanes) AD Carries: [[graves]]: as long as he has a good support matchup he's super dominant, you can keep him down for 10 minutes but if he gets onto you once you still die. Haven't seen to much of him late game but it seems like his buckshot is so effective in dueling he doesn't fall off that hard either (just he can't siege). [[caitlyn]]: benefited very little from the buffs on W/E imo, but this could be because my ADC's weren't used to it yet either. She still remains very vulnerable to all-ins in lane and her mid game is probably worse than before (because other ADC's are much stronger in relative terms). I also have a feeling the nerfs to what used to be the standard ADC build limit her late game damage output a bit compared to casters. [[miss fortune]]: holy shit this bitch deals a shit ton of damage. Really, I've just played a game in which we were messing around (I played Leona) and our ults combined literally one shot 3 people at once. The late game scaling on her ult is insane although she remains very vulnerable to hooks/engages etc, therefore requires a lot of patience and likely also a good comp to be effective with. Either way, if you get a full ult of in a teamfight and you die for it, you've likely won the teamfight anyway. [[ashe]]: only played against her once but she doesn't seem any worse or better. [tristana]]: idem - in general hypercarries feel a bit underwhelming atm [[corki]]: super inconsistent. His lane didn't really improve so you're very reliant on these short 'package' power spikes (they are amazing though lmfao). I like the new masteries on him, but I don't think he'll be very popular for the reasons mentioned above.[/quote]

[quote=OTGBionicArm]Here I was thinking Graves would just be either way too strong or way too weak. You're saying he's probably balanced out by various support (and enemy ADC) match ups?[/quote]

[quote=Vynertje]Well he IS way too strong, but I think he does rely on support choice a bit more than some other ADC's do. As long as he has a good support he doesn't really care as much about matchup. Do note that I've played with him once and against him once, so my sample size isn't exactly representative. I may very well just be underestimating his strength, even in a poor lane.[/quote]

[quote=Vapora Dark][quote=Vynertje][[morgana]]: not much better or worse than before, therefore worse in relative terms. The fact that she can more easily afford AP items like hourglass is a slight boost though[/quote] After Zhonya's cost increase by 500 gold?[/quote]

[quote=Vynertje][quote=Vapora Dark][quote=Vynertje][[morgana]]: not much better or worse than before, therefore worse in relative terms. The fact that she can more easily afford AP items like hourglass is a slight boost though[/quote] After Zhonya's cost increase by 500 gold?[/quote] Wasn't aware of that, my bad. Thanks for correcting me! I'll edit it once the moba servers allow me to[/quote]

[quote=HiFromBuddha]Thoughts on [[Soraka]]? I hear she's getting pretty cancerous after the change to Grevious Wounds.[/quote]

[quote=Vynertje]Will play her next game I play (probably tonight) to see, haven't had the chance to test before. I'll report back asap ;)[/quote]

[quote=Vynertje]Yeah she's pretty bullshit, but not to the level that she's first pick worthy (ban worthy is something different as she's antifun lmao). She has a number of counters that when played well, can make her life pretty difficult regardless.[/quote]