7.4 Tier List + AMA

[quote=TheSilverDust][quote=RottedApples] it is pretty. I kinda want to touch it with my dick now.[/quote] Hey, don't dry hump the list. :^[[/quote]

[quote=H4xDefender]Zyra isn't that bad, shes just much more suited to support. Her ultimate is a great disengage tool, but when she goes mid you kinda have to just walk up and nuke with it, and that kills half of the effectiveness of the ability. Her snare is pretty short range and is wayyyy less effective than you might think it is when trying to land it in mid, as opposed to something like brand stun. Her damage values at a glance are insane, but a lot of is is limited to when the enemy team is aggressing forward. When she is walking forward in a fight her damage drops significantly. She also is one of the squishiest champs in the game as far as base hp/resists go, which doesn't help her case since she has no escape at all. Her plants are pretty meh outside of lane, but they are pretty strong zone tools in it. That being said, she isn't irredeemably bad, just an inconsistent pick. You can argue she is similar to brand, but brand just needs to press R E W in a teamfight, and hes assured of at least decent damage. Zyra has a lot more risk involved. Zyra is in no way better than "every mage in tier 3." If you really want me to go more in-depth about any of them stacked against zyra go ahead and ask, but im not gonna break down all of them. Placed her where I feel she belongs.[/quote]

[quote=MungoGeri][quote=Vynertje][quote=MungoGeri]I notice that you don't list [[zyra]] in the mid lane section. It's fine if you don't think she's as good as I do, but I know I can beat nearly all of the tier 3 group with her and the couple remaining champs in the group would be an even match depending on skill. Could you put [[zyra]] in tier 3 mid and call it a day?[/quote] Tbh that sounds like a quite arrogant question. Why not ask instead [b]why[/b] he places her below all the others?[/quote] Because he doesn't list her at all -- unless there's a secret "tier 5" list that is the "Omg, I can't believe this noob is playing her, how dumb is that guy?" tier. Of the similar mages listed in tier 3 ([[Cassiopeia]], [[Xerath]], [[Malzahar]], [[Annie]], [[Heimerdinger]], [[Vel'Koz]]), she outclasses all of them. I personally think she should be low tier 2, but I'm not interested in getting into a long debate about it. I mean, if you're including [[heimerdinger]] in tier 3, then [[zyra]] who beats him in every way should at least show up on the list.[/quote]

[quote=H4xDefender]added zyra and moved some mids around[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy]I honestly feel like [[cassiopeia]] is very underrated atm, I mean, she was once the top mid champ together with [[azir]]. She also brings the damage to kill tanks rather easily and the time she was strong was in the tank meta as well. And I could bet if PoE touches her it will cause her to get permabanned against Origen.[/quote]

[quote=H4xDefender]yeah i think cassio could be good, need to see it to judge though, and nobody has really been playing her for me to judge[/quote]

[quote=RottedApples]I've started to see a couple cass's here and there. There was one at lowish diamond in korean that seemed to be wrecking face (granted this was one game that i watched from cowderps stream) so i don't think she's that bad right now. The game is in a lot of flux right now. Even though the last patch was quite a while ago now it's still a bit of a strange world but i think people are really grasping it now.[/quote]

[quote=MungoGeri]I've seen a few [[Cassiopeia]]'s in silver and they did pretty well. All their dot's worked great with [[deathfire touch]]. However, the nerf to how [[deathfire touch]] interacts with dot's seemed to hit her power quite a bit and I haven't seen many since the latest patch.[/quote]

[quote=FalseoGod][quote=MungoGeri]Of the similar mages listed in tier 3 ([[Cassiopeia]], [[Xerath]], [[Malzahar]], [[Annie]], [[Heimerdinger]], [[Vel'Koz]]), she outclasses all of them. I personally think she should be low tier 2, but I'm not interested in getting into a long debate about it. I mean, if you're including [[heimerdinger]] in tier 3, then [[zyra]] who beats him in every way should at least show up on the list.[/quote] Regardless of what H4x did in the list, I completely disagree with many of the matchups you placed in terms of lane phase (and some of them, out of lane). [[cassiopeia]]: Will struggle a bit pre-100 stacks, should sustain fine after them. In terms of teamfighting, she scales much better in terms of single target takedown than Zyra, although Zyra has the better utility. [[xerath]]: He completely outranges and outpokes Zyra easily. Her strategy can be shoving him but as soon as he gains levels and mana regen/cooldown he can easily clear waves. In teamfights, both have great AoE, she has better utility while he probably has better damage while being able to reach more targets with less risk. [[malzahar]]: This is a farm lane, there's no way either of them should be taking much damage from the other. Malzahar just needs a mana regen tool and he can clear waves with 0 risk. Both have low mobility and pretty good gank followup potential post-6 (although Zyra can disengage, depends on jungler and how both position). Both have pretty good AoE but [[malzahar]] has a much better single target neutralization potention. His R + W can help take down tanks who think he'll save his ultimate for an ADC with QSS. [[annie]]: The matchup is favorable towards zyra due to range + cc. Annie's biggest threat is flash + tibbers. Both use frost queen pretty well. Annie has bigger burst while Zyra has more DPS. [[heimerdinger]]: Also favorable towards Zyra in lane since she can deal pretty well with his Q. Zyra has less conditional zone than heimer too. [[vel'koz]]: A farm lane that leans slightly towards vel. He has pretty decent waveclear, poke, low mana costs and good disengage. In teamfights, it's all about his ability to ult and keep enemies at bay. @h4x: I actually think he's too low in the tier list, although he does deal poorly with high mobility.[/quote]

[quote=TheSilverDust]They're talking about [[Zyra]] mid, so I'll get to this question: what are yout thoughts about [[Zilean]] mid? I have another question tho, but I'll post it later. Poat may be long and xomplixates that I will not type all of that in my phone, knowing that MOBAFire sucks in mobile. EDIT: FAT THUMBS. TOO LAZY TO EDIT GRAMMATICAL ERRORS.[/quote]