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Do you agree?
disagree. The whole "let's invade and look for afk kill because we have the advantage of our team all being here" concept is just complete ******** IMO. Only speaking for myself because idk about others but that thought literally never crossed my mind. In fact I think level 1 invades go hand in hand with inhouse "spirit" - they are fun, exciting and unpredictable, unlike seeing a laneswap and knowing that the next 10 minutes will probably decide the outcome of the game. Or having players that can barely play bot lane go up against bot lane mains, get crushed within minutes and be a non factor for the rest of the 20-40 minute game, effectively making the game a 5v3. Or having trollpicks on your team that WILL solo lose the game if the enemy team so much as bothers to move a finger to punish them
1) Regarding swaps: there have been premeditated swaps during pics more than once. I know for a fact that we've had games in the past with you on team suggesting swap to **** fox's 
Irelia, I'm sure Jjoxuu going "oh boy you're in for a surprise" on ts when I picked yorick and he had lulu and I had to go 2v1 with a horrible laneswapper while he had a favorable one was also premeditated. That's nasty.
I also find it extremely selfish that your reason for laneswapping is âotherwise I canât enjoy lane because my support might **** upâ. I mean, youâre imposing nastyness on at least one player on the enemy team (2v1) because of your apparant inability to, idk, either go solo ADC - which youâve had no issues with in the past and is also pretty ****y but w/e - or play a different role. Youâre basically going âmy support MIGHT **** up even though Iâm basically an adc main now, so I might as well make other people who are guaranteedly lower elo than me suffert through my own ********â. This without taking into account how the enemy botlane may feel about the swap.
2) You keep going âinvades are REALLY tryhardâ and then going âwell itâs not that big of an issue for meâ in your posts. Which one is it? And your âpointâ of âIâm afk on tribushâ is a contradiction by itself: people cover the tribush to prevent or see invades coming, and yet you go afk. So youâre giving vision to your team but god forbid enemy team invades coz itâs really tryhard since youâre afk. Wat?
3) You completely missed the point on my previous second point and spent ages justifying every single instance I posted. I was merely saying âhow is invading tryhard and so bad for you but these situations arenât?â Because it doesnât matter if itâs playstyle or not, every single situation was you being nasty towards someone else (granted the MNLM, after your explanation, was pretty much his fault, even if vengeful but what can you do except rise above it I guess).
This falls once again into the âtryhard vs funâ argument where 50% agrees you canât try stuff in inhouses, should only play your main roles and champs and try your best to poop on everyone (unless they dc, gotta respect that, probably) and 50% thinks you can do what you want as long as youâre trying to win. I mean, I thought jungle teemo would be stupid as **** if people tried to bone me, and now itâs been played by two more players and even H4x said itâs pretty decent if you can avoid early boning so w/e. No oneâs doing AP Vayne or AP Riven, every instance of new **** tried involved betting on a champs other scallings, even if theyâre not optimal,
In the end, since thereâs no rules around this. Itâs neither the guy playing ap volibearâs fault that the tryhard guy on his main is flipping out because âomg I canât win coz this is 4v5â (which is an overstatement, even if I get what heâs saying) nor is the tryhardâs fault that him going bananas/**** mode is ruining the volibear playerâs fun (ofc you could argue that volibear affects his whole team/players, but that depends solely on the players and how they feel about this particular subject).
Irelia, I'm sure Jjoxuu going "oh boy you're in for a surprise" on ts when I picked yorick and he had lulu and I had to go 2v1 with a horrible laneswapper while he had a favorable one was also premeditated. That's nasty.I also find it extremely selfish that your reason for laneswapping is âotherwise I canât enjoy lane because my support might **** upâ. I mean, youâre imposing nastyness on at least one player on the enemy team (2v1) because of your apparant inability to, idk, either go solo ADC - which youâve had no issues with in the past and is also pretty ****y but w/e - or play a different role. Youâre basically going âmy support MIGHT **** up even though Iâm basically an adc main now, so I might as well make other people who are guaranteedly lower elo than me suffert through my own ********â. This without taking into account how the enemy botlane may feel about the swap.
2) You keep going âinvades are REALLY tryhardâ and then going âwell itâs not that big of an issue for meâ in your posts. Which one is it? And your âpointâ of âIâm afk on tribushâ is a contradiction by itself: people cover the tribush to prevent or see invades coming, and yet you go afk. So youâre giving vision to your team but god forbid enemy team invades coz itâs really tryhard since youâre afk. Wat?
3) You completely missed the point on my previous second point and spent ages justifying every single instance I posted. I was merely saying âhow is invading tryhard and so bad for you but these situations arenât?â Because it doesnât matter if itâs playstyle or not, every single situation was you being nasty towards someone else (granted the MNLM, after your explanation, was pretty much his fault, even if vengeful but what can you do except rise above it I guess).
DisturbedFox wrote:
disagree. having players that can barely play bot lane go up against bot lane mains, get crushed within minutes and be a non factor for the rest of the 20-40 minute game, effectively making the game a 5v3. Or having trollpicks on your team that WILL solo lose the game if the enemy team so much as bothers to move a finger to punish them
This falls once again into the âtryhard vs funâ argument where 50% agrees you canât try stuff in inhouses, should only play your main roles and champs and try your best to poop on everyone (unless they dc, gotta respect that, probably) and 50% thinks you can do what you want as long as youâre trying to win. I mean, I thought jungle teemo would be stupid as **** if people tried to bone me, and now itâs been played by two more players and even H4x said itâs pretty decent if you can avoid early boning so w/e. No oneâs doing AP Vayne or AP Riven, every instance of new **** tried involved betting on a champs other scallings, even if theyâre not optimal,
In the end, since thereâs no rules around this. Itâs neither the guy playing ap volibearâs fault that the tryhard guy on his main is flipping out because âomg I canât win coz this is 4v5â (which is an overstatement, even if I get what heâs saying) nor is the tryhardâs fault that him going bananas/**** mode is ruining the volibear playerâs fun (ofc you could argue that volibear affects his whole team/players, but that depends solely on the players and how they feel about this particular subject).
Thank you Tsuki for the sig!
Relevant fact: League of Legends is a game that starts at 00:00.
Jokes aside, that's actually all I have to say here. If we don't allow early fights we might as well all start playing Nasus and Vayne and buy enough canned food to survive the two hour game.
By the way, I believe to recall invades where someone got a hook off, but the target didn't get killed because he/she did not respond to getting hooked at all. If people start abusing this little bit of courtesy that's the end of it of course and I believe that is what happened. Still, the idea of the invades is by no means to abuse AFKs or DCs. I can't imagine people DCing in the first 90 seconds but okay.
All in all I think you should just go to the toilet or check reddit during the loading screen instead of during a game. Or pause.
By the way, in inhouses every regular knows invades happen, and we may have to make it a tradition to warn newcomers for it when they join a game. But I don't see it as an example of unsportsmanlike behavior.
As a top laner I don't mind lane swaps in inhouses. As has been mentioned, it hurts both sides, and I only see it as a personal challenge when I have to lane against two people. And as Vapora pointed out, people don't do real dirty stuff that feels horrible like waiting in a bush at the first wave or coordinating an early dive. I also have nothing against planned lane swaps, those are just another part of the game. Like some people can't stand invades, other people can't stand lane swaps, but they're both completely valid game elements endorsed by Rito games itself.
Straight out trolling has always been against the rules as far as I know. If I go to lane and get myself killed intentionally a few times in a row I should definitely be taken off inhouse games for a while as it's plain unsportsmanlike behavior. I don't see the same thing when people try something new though.
As always people should aim to create an enjoyable atmosphere for everyone, so if the whole team dead seriously screams "don't go AP Riven" then you shouldn't go AP Riven in my opinion. But apart from that I am fine with some weird stuff and I don't think it is disallowed by the rules as is. It's just another aspect of theory crafting and therefore of the game. Sometimes a new strategy works and sometimes it doesn't. Tough luck. Of course, if one chooses a strategy knowing that it won't work and with the idea in mind to screw their own team over, then that's unsportsmanlike behavior and that should not be accepted.
Thanks for bringing this up, Vapora. I'm a frequent invader and I was completely oblivious to a part of the inhouse players taking such offense to it.
Jokes aside, that's actually all I have to say here. If we don't allow early fights we might as well all start playing
Nasus and Vayne and buy enough canned food to survive the two hour game.By the way, I believe to recall invades where someone got a hook off, but the target didn't get killed because he/she did not respond to getting hooked at all. If people start abusing this little bit of courtesy that's the end of it of course and I believe that is what happened. Still, the idea of the invades is by no means to abuse AFKs or DCs. I can't imagine people DCing in the first 90 seconds but okay.
All in all I think you should just go to the toilet or check reddit during the loading screen instead of during a game. Or pause.
By the way, in inhouses every regular knows invades happen, and we may have to make it a tradition to warn newcomers for it when they join a game. But I don't see it as an example of unsportsmanlike behavior.
As a top laner I don't mind lane swaps in inhouses. As has been mentioned, it hurts both sides, and I only see it as a personal challenge when I have to lane against two people. And as Vapora pointed out, people don't do real dirty stuff that feels horrible like waiting in a bush at the first wave or coordinating an early dive. I also have nothing against planned lane swaps, those are just another part of the game. Like some people can't stand invades, other people can't stand lane swaps, but they're both completely valid game elements endorsed by Rito games itself.
Straight out trolling has always been against the rules as far as I know. If I go to lane and get myself killed intentionally a few times in a row I should definitely be taken off inhouse games for a while as it's plain unsportsmanlike behavior. I don't see the same thing when people try something new though.
As always people should aim to create an enjoyable atmosphere for everyone, so if the whole team dead seriously screams "don't go AP
Riven" then you shouldn't go AP Riven in my opinion. But apart from that I am fine with some weird stuff and I don't think it is disallowed by the rules as is. It's just another aspect of theory crafting and therefore of the game. Sometimes a new strategy works and sometimes it doesn't. Tough luck. Of course, if one chooses a strategy knowing that it won't work and with the idea in mind to screw their own team over, then that's unsportsmanlike behavior and that should not be accepted.Thanks for bringing this up, Vapora. I'm a frequent invader and I was completely oblivious to a part of the inhouse players taking such offense to it.
********'s a pretty good fertilizer
Latest Legend wrote:
Thanks for bringing this up, Vapora. I'm a frequent invader and I was completely oblivious to a part of the inhouse players taking such offense to it.
So far only Vapora spoke in favor publicly. Also I've seen toplane swap cheese happen on EUW and NA, but only with the support + ADC to get the other guy already low as an added handicap
Thank you Byron for 2014's loudest laugh up till today
Latest Legend wrote:
By the way, I believe to recall invades where someone got a hook off, but the target didn't get killed because he/she did not respond to getting hooked at all. If people start abusing this little bit of courtesy that's the end of it of course and I believe that is what happened. Still, the idea of the invades is by no means to abuse AFKs or DCs. I can't imagine people DCing in the first 90 seconds but okay.
I personally don't remember if I've ever seen that happen but you may be right.
And I didn't mean to say that people are often DC'd during that stage of the game, just that when invades actually get you a kill, IMO it's most often a result of someone, whether they be the person being caught or someone who didn't cover a jungle entrance, being alt tabbed/not at their computer at the time of the invade. And that in other situations if we see someone afk, for whatever reason, we pause the game, or at the very least not abuse it by jumping at the chance to get a free kill on someone that's not there. I realize there's a difference in someone being afk/alt tabbed because they don't want to bother paying attention to the game in the first minute and a half and someone DC'ing/pausing the game to answer the door or answer the phone, so it's indeed not quite the same thing.
Latest Legend wrote:
Thanks for bringing this up, Vapora. I'm a frequent invader and I was completely oblivious to a part of the inhouse players taking such offense to it.
Can't tell if this is sarcasm or not. :P In case it isn't, as False pointed out I haven't seen anyone else have a problem with this. I only brought it up because if people were to agree with what I was saying, it has a much easier solution than the issue of tryhard vs fun.
The issue with laneswaps isn't so much the actual game effect of them, it's just really ****ing boring for top and bot on both teams since you're essentially playing PvE for the whole laning phase.
But to be fair laning against Vapora is basically playing PvE anyway so...
But to be fair laning against Vapora is basically playing PvE anyway so...
I'd argue that being alt tabbed in the first 90 seconds is either a mistake or an act of trolling. But I think I've reiterated that enough ^^'
Can't tell if this is sarcasm or not. :P In case it isn't, as False pointed out I haven't seen anyone else have a problem with this. I only brought it up because if people were to agree with what I was saying, it has a much easier solution than the issue of tryhard vs fun.
It wasn't sarcasm, I think it's good that we talk about these things because sometimes it feels like there are all sorts of secret salty things being said in small groups instead of them getting discussed openly like this. Also, four people have already voted yes in the poll so it's clear to me that there's a substantial part of the players thinking this is something we need to talk about.
I think balancing is fine as is by the way, if anything we could agree to stop swapping champions during champion select so that we can all see that support main picking a top lane champion and think "yay, I can do something funky too".
Vapora Dark wrote:
Can't tell if this is sarcasm or not. :P In case it isn't, as False pointed out I haven't seen anyone else have a problem with this. I only brought it up because if people were to agree with what I was saying, it has a much easier solution than the issue of tryhard vs fun.
I think balancing is fine as is by the way, if anything we could agree to stop swapping champions during champion select so that we can all see that support main picking a top lane champion and think "yay, I can do something funky too".
********'s a pretty good fertilizer
I don't understand how you can think laneswaps are not "tryhardy" in inhouses, but level 1 cheese invades, especially if they get called out on discord/teamspeak beforehand qualify as "tryhardy." (Not to mention from what I gathered it is the same people doing it every time on the same champions so it is super obvious). If I get killed on a level 1 invade its because I ****ed up. If I get boned because of a laneswap I didn't see coming because nobody will ever invade for laneswap wards in an inhouse, I would be pretty upset. (In fact I'm pretty sure I did get swapped on in a game, but it was ok because I killed false a bunch of times)
I can prevent myself from getting ****ed by a level 1 invade just by being tabbed into league of legends when the game has already started. Not hard.
The only way I can prevent myself from getting laneswapped on is if I get my whole team to come with me to deepward properly, and even then, if a blindswap happens there still isn't anything I can do, especially because people in inhouses, (and most league players tbh) dont know the correct protocol to responding to a laneswap. I also disagree with the notion that laneswaps aren't harmful to the top laner. If I am the toplaner and I get swapped on, I'm way more ****ed in most situations than someone who has to deal with a lane opponent who got FB and an extra longsword + pot, ESPECIALLY if my bot lane doesn't play the swap properly and bounce the wave.
Why do you need the "common courtesty" of people not invading when you have the load screen to go get water/piss/read reddit, as well as the pause function if someone isn't back in time for the start of the game?
Also, I don't get why you think someone has to be AFK to die to an invade. If invades are done properly with the right champions, there is a pretty good chance you kill people who aren't afk if you land CC and layer it properly.
As far as the skill discrepancy in inhouses, as well as the "tryhard vs fun" conundrum, that will just always be there. If I go 100% super tryhard shotcall mode on my best champs all the time, I'm sure I'd win a majority of my inhouse games, but I find that much more exhausting so I don't really ever do that. Since teams are balanced around ELO, does that mean I am hurting inhouse integrity because I don't want to go 100% all the time when I play? You can't really solve something like that. Nor can you get around the fact that some people will have to off-role with widely varying degrees of success most of the time.
As far as stuff like AP vayne and Riven, I think common sense works well enough when determining whether something is troll or not. Most people don't want to play stuff that is irredeemably awful anyway, and if someones pick is seriously bothering someone, most people have the common courtesy to switch off if it is an issue.
Taking away invades entirely just seems like a terrible solution. What if I DO want to play blitzcrank and invade to get my team a summoner or a kill ahead at level 1 because I'm confident I'll land grab? Do I just handicap myself because people don't know how to use the pause feature?
@False I lost vs jungle teemo in soloq again today, think I'm like 0-6 lifetime vs it now ROFL
I can prevent myself from getting ****ed by a level 1 invade just by being tabbed into league of legends when the game has already started. Not hard.
The only way I can prevent myself from getting laneswapped on is if I get my whole team to come with me to deepward properly, and even then, if a blindswap happens there still isn't anything I can do, especially because people in inhouses, (and most league players tbh) dont know the correct protocol to responding to a laneswap. I also disagree with the notion that laneswaps aren't harmful to the top laner. If I am the toplaner and I get swapped on, I'm way more ****ed in most situations than someone who has to deal with a lane opponent who got FB and an extra longsword + pot, ESPECIALLY if my bot lane doesn't play the swap properly and bounce the wave.
Why do you need the "common courtesty" of people not invading when you have the load screen to go get water/piss/read reddit, as well as the pause function if someone isn't back in time for the start of the game?
Also, I don't get why you think someone has to be AFK to die to an invade. If invades are done properly with the right champions, there is a pretty good chance you kill people who aren't afk if you land CC and layer it properly.
As far as the skill discrepancy in inhouses, as well as the "tryhard vs fun" conundrum, that will just always be there. If I go 100% super tryhard shotcall mode on my best champs all the time, I'm sure I'd win a majority of my inhouse games, but I find that much more exhausting so I don't really ever do that. Since teams are balanced around ELO, does that mean I am hurting inhouse integrity because I don't want to go 100% all the time when I play? You can't really solve something like that. Nor can you get around the fact that some people will have to off-role with widely varying degrees of success most of the time.
As far as stuff like AP vayne and Riven, I think common sense works well enough when determining whether something is troll or not. Most people don't want to play stuff that is irredeemably awful anyway, and if someones pick is seriously bothering someone, most people have the common courtesy to switch off if it is an issue.
Taking away invades entirely just seems like a terrible solution. What if I DO want to play blitzcrank and invade to get my team a summoner or a kill ahead at level 1 because I'm confident I'll land grab? Do I just handicap myself because people don't know how to use the pause feature?
@False I lost vs jungle teemo in soloq again today, think I'm like 0-6 lifetime vs it now ROFL
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In my defense it's being tainted by False quotes. :^)