Using Maths in Builds: Proving why some things...

[quote=Searz]If you're gonna make calculations you ought to do it right.. [h1]Use this for a correct value:[/h1] Damage with crit and AS at level 18 = (AD*%CrD*%CrC/100+AD*(1-%CrC/100))*0.66*(1.54+%AS from items/100)*100/(100+(x-ArP)*(1-%ArP/100))[/quote]

[quote=SpicyRice][quote=Jet] [quote=SpicyRice] [quote=Jet] from that graph infinity edge is the best, obviously, so why use graphs when you can't even analyse your own results correctly? [/quote] i had assumed that people know the cost of the items, but i thought it obvious: IE costs 1800 more than youmuu's. [/quote] draw a line from the highest point to the lowest point infinity edge is better according to your chart, especially if you included as much as you said in your excel spreadsheet [/quote] I get the impression you either didn't read or understand my reply to you. I will try to spell it out more clearly: For the same price as an IE you get a Youmuu's + a B.F Sword THIS DOES SIGNIFICANTLY MORE DAMAGE THAN AN INFINITY EDGE AT EACH STAGE OF THE GRAPH. it is not shown on the graph because i didn't want to compare weapon combinations. because your maths seems a bit dodgy (why would drawing a line from the highest to lowest point show damage dealt MORE ACCURATELY than the method i've used?) i'll just show the proof: Sion's damage at time of considering which item to get: 111 + 30 from Tri Force + 30 from Youmuu's + 65 from enrage = 236 + B.F sword (50) = 286 AD increase from B.F. Sword is (50 / 236) * 100 = 21.1% Since AD is multiplicative in terms of how it affects DPS (everything is multiplied by AD), this means there is a 21.1% increase in DPS. so if you want to imagine the Youmuu's line +20% damage (bear in mind the axis doesn't start at 0) you will see why Youmuu's is so much better. I hope this clears this up.[/quote]

[quote=SpicyRice][quote=Searz] If you're gonna make calculations you ought to do it right.. [h1]Use this for a correct value:[/h1] Damage with crit and AS at level 18 = (AD*%CrD*%CrC/100+AD*(1-%CrC/100))*0.66*(1.54+%AS from items/100)*100/(100+(x-ArP)*(1-%ArP)) [/quote] Hi Searz, would you mind explaining your formula in parts? where has the 0.66 and 1.54 come from? I'd like to know if i've been doing it wrong so i can update results, or perhaps these are the same formulae in different formats?[/quote]

[quote=Jet][quote](why would drawing a line from the highest to lowest point show damage dealt MORE ACCURATELY than the method i've used?) [/quote] because if you use the same equation for everything, you basically show in your graph infinity edge is better in your graph when you draw lines from the highest to lowest point you show: a) youmuu's initially starts off MARGINALLY better than infinity edge, but the instant it's active is off (9s), it drops to the median (17.5s value) of infinity edge b) outside of ult, infinity edge has a much higher damage output, and extremely higher during ult c) the line is higher than yuumou's, which means it's better, according to your information i.e in your chart, the highest median is the best, infinity edge has the highest median btw dont draw graphs in ms paint. they aren't accurate at all. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/GCiPS.jpg[/IMG] item cost is irrelevant anyone can tell you if you're playing AD carry for any champion that uses auto attacks for their damage output, infinity edge is the best.[/quote]

[quote=Searz]0.66 is an estimated base attack speed. 1.54*100 is the estimated amount of attack speed you gain per lvl in % (that mean it assumes you're lvl18). It's simply a way of calculating AS without checking in game. I'm too lazy to use champion specific values in calculations. Besides; you get more versatile results if you use estimated numbers. The by far most simple way of making graphs is to follow [url=http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/forum/theorycrafting/your-graphing-resource-1950?page=1#bottom]these instructions[/url]. Trust me, I've made quite a few myself.[/quote]

[quote=SpicyRice]Thanks Searz, I'll have a look over these formulae when i'm not sleepy. to Jet: I'm not sure if you're retarded or trolling. I've CLEARLY said twice: this is an item vs item comparison. if you can ONLY GET ONE ITEM, then IE is best. BUT for the price of an IE you can get a Youmuu's and a B.F sword. Which together give higher DPS than IE at every point. The question i am answering by using this graph is: what is the most efficient way of quickly increasing my DPS in a sustainable manner? by efficient i mean in gold terms. by sustainable i mean, once i buy other items would i do more DPS if i had made a different choice earlier down the road. come to think of it i don't know why i'm wasting subtleties on you, you won't understand if you can't understand that if two items do comparable damage and one is just over half the price of the other, then the cheaper one is clearly a better choice. as for your little gloat of "don't do graphs in paint", i did the graph in Open Office Calculator. When i uploaded it the yellow was too pale, so i went over all the lines in paint in the colour of their items and in thicker lines. if you look at the bottom right corner you can see the smaller green line that was automatically given to the bloodthirster by Open Office Calculator. and finally, i suggest you uninstall league of legends if you think that sustainable damage (anything close to 40 sec!) is as valuable as burst damage. i'm not sure if you've worked out how to use the PvP mode yet, but in this mode there are things called TeamFights, where teams group up and fight eachother near map objectives. In teamfights, the dominant strategy is: kill the enemies with highest DPS first, while keeping your allies with highest DPS alive since teamfights are anywhere between 8-16 seconds long, i really really hope you can grasp the concept that damage done in this period is the most valuable kind of damage you can do. that is why youmuu's active is so good, because you get really high DPS for not much money for the first 8 sec of a teamfight. that is enough time to easily take out 2 squishies while having some cc thrown at you. the least important part of the graph is the part from 20 seconds onwards. this is your "no abilities used" DPS and is used for farming. which isn't too tough, especially for a sion with a fully levelled shield, enrage tri force and youmuu's... so to summarise: the damage dealt to minions is not as valuable as damage dealt to chamions. if you can do high burst damage in a teamfight that more than counterbalances the slightly slower farming. all for about half the price. as for your comment that "anyone can tell you if you're playing AD carry for any champion that uses auto attacks for their damage output, infinity edge is the best". ... it's like you've completely missed the whole point of doing the maths... it's to find out which item is the best... for your money... i think i'm wasting my time writing this...[/quote]

[quote=SpicyRice]also i genuinely can't believe you took the time and effort to draw lines of best fit on my graph without at any point realising that you were not enhancing the data, you were just taking away detail. it's as if you assume people can't compare lines if they aren't straight...[/quote]

[quote=Searz][quote=SpicyRice] for the price of an IE you can get a Youmuu's and a B.F sword. Which together give higher DPS than IE at every point.[/quote] It barely gives more damage than IE(not counting the active). And that's without any other crit item, thus unfavorable for IE. IE is the best item to rush after some kind of crit item on most crit champions. Oh, and good luck with the graphs. Do upload them to the graphing thread if you think they're correct. (include the formulas while you're at it)[/quote]

[quote=SpicyRice]i will do some more graphs and include one with The Black Cleaver, which is quite difficult to model. I will also get some data for Youmuu's +B.F Sword because i've only done some quick calculations for that so far...[/quote]

[quote=Searz]As long as you're using the formulas and the graphing program I've provided it's fine. Your first graph is all kinds of confusing and bad :([/quote]