Speed buff over a slow...
The whole jungle rework just sounds like jungling won't be any fun any more. Red buff was the whole reason ganks were even dangerous imo o_O
To original poster; Red buff owns. Blue buff is a better buff, but Red buff shouldn't be underestimated.
The whole jungle rework just sounds like jungling won't be any fun any more. Red buff was the whole reason ganks were even dangerous imo o_O
To original poster; Red buff owns. Blue buff is a better buff, but Red buff shouldn't be underestimated.
http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/duffs-336706
Come hang out when I'm streaming! http://www.twitch.tv/dufftime
Xenasis
<Member>
<Member>
DuffTime wrote:
Speed buff over a slow...
The whole jungle rework just sounds like jungling won't be any fun any more. Red buff was the whole reason ganks were even dangerous imo o_O
To original poster; Red buff owns. Blue buff is a better buff, but Red buff shouldn't be underestimated.
Yeah.
It also takes away the viability of counter jungling. If everything respawns so damn fast, what's the point in doing invasions? Risking your own skin just for a little bit of XP was so risky - but it paid off. That's what separated a good jungler from a bad one, the ability to correctly conduct and correctly counter counter jungling. Making it so the best way to play is sitting in your jungle hitting creeps sounds stupidly ******ed. That's like there being two separate lanes, without towers, with just minions in them, nobody to fight. The red buff change makes ganking not nearly as potent either.
@OP
Red buff is extremely powerful, and makes AD carries like Caitlyn and Ezreal a LOT more viable. A permanent slow with magic damage was all it took for Gangplank to go from being stupidly underpowered to stupidly overpowered. Just put that into perspective.
There's also the fact that it makes some junglers MUCH more viable, Trundle and Master Yi would be notable examples.
Blue buff is better, but red buff is an EXTREMELY good buff, and shouldn't be changed.
Yeah these changes have me really in wonder.
It almost seems like the kind of change you just do simply to keep things feeling fresh and keep people interested... I almost feel like the jungle is perfect as is personally...
It almost seems like the kind of change you just do simply to keep things feeling fresh and keep people interested... I almost feel like the jungle is perfect as is personally...
http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/duffs-336706
Come hang out when I'm streaming! http://www.twitch.tv/dufftime
Xenasis
<Member>
<Member>
theBMB wrote:
is there a link to this jungle change talk? I want to read up on it
Quoted:
quinsoo:
The main problem with the slow on Lizard is that it means if you get caught by it overextended, you die. A haste will make it so that that man can kill you, not that man's team can kill you (if you get caught).
This is an integral cog in increasing early game activity (knowing you're not GUARANTEED to die if you get caught out of position means you can be more aggressive), making the jungle more accessible to low level summoners, making the jungle less sensitive to counter jungling (right now it's too big of a swing if you get counter jungled, although I will concede this is the weakest point in the system that needs to be solved), allowing more champions to jungle, making Smite less necessary, allowing non-jungle champions to jungle more (in other words allow role flexibility WITHIN a game not just between games), and probably at least half a dozen major goals as well, and for actually increasing skill differentiation within the jungle.
One of my major problems with the jungle right now is that due to the long respawn timers, there actually is little choice for the player - you have a set route and you gank (generally) when your jungle is clear. There are times when you vary this, but for the most part this is what you do. We'd like to make it so that at all given points, junglers have more interesting choices for what they want to do - should I level up, gank, invade, etc? Ideally they'd all be more valuable for actually doing, but have a higher opportunity cost for doing so - in other words they're all good options but you have to pick what would be most advantageous for your team.
I agree that some champions are hit harder by the loss of slow on Lizard than others (Master Yi for example) but in general those champions are the ones that are going to benefit most from the other side of this coin - reducing monster spawns and making so that if you just sit and farm your jungle, you will earn more resources. In general it will work out, and we can tune the cases that don't.
Also, the jungle is hard enough right now such that we have to make champions basically OP to succeed in the jungle - see Warwick, Udyr.
Just to be clear - this will make jungling more dynamic as you'll actually have to CHOOSE what you're doing at any given point.
With the exact rules that I have set out, yes, counter jungling would be weaker, but it's an EASY problem to solve. We can add rules to fix the various problems. This hasn't even been tested once yet. This could not be a set of changes that's EARLIER in the iterative process.
To those who are saying if you overextend you should die, I totally disagree. That's why you see so many flashes, and why turret hugging is so popular. If you could push an enemy turret without completely screwing yourself, wouldn't you be more likely to do it?
This is also a very incomplete changelog, leaving out several very important factors, like what we are doing to Flash, how we are going to make it harder to farm minions under your turret (so you have more incentive to push or at least stay away from your own turret), and making champions able to harass a little better in lane. Hopefully it should be obvious what these changes in combination with not changing or nerfing Lizard would do.
I definitely do not want to reduce counter jungling much. We probably will have to add a mechanic to cover that angle.
Quoted:
guinsoo:
Slightly frightened about the possibility of Golem giving Mordekaiser shield. And excited. Need to try jungle Mord in playtest soon
I like things that make me feel stupid. - Ken Levine
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Bonus true damage is nice, but the slow is rather small (10% early on, 5% for ranged). Blue buff basically gives you infinite mana and the ability to spam your spells. Even if you don't have mana that CDR can be really useful, whereas a mage with red is kinda pointless. I suppose red would be really useful on a ranged champ in lane since it would give great harass, but that rarely happens since the jungler usually takes it.