3 supports, the new metagame?

[quote=DuffTime]Just wait until my team takes Vayne and Janna bot, Kat mid (Onoes ware are ur healz?) Amumu Jungle perhaps to lock all teh squishies down~ And a nice big scary Olaf top lane that you can't do anything about because you do zero damage :) If Kat literally can't hold mid like you said we'll just take AP Sion and problem solved. GG. Also the tower would not go down within 5 minutes >:P I'm laughing real good.[/quote]

[quote=KyleeRayne]Hmmm this isn't a very well thought out idea.... I think clearly you should just transfer the AD carry + Support to mid to mess with the mid lane's head, but that't just me. xD[/quote]

[quote=Vort][quote=DuffTime] If Kat literally can't hold mid like you said we'll just take AP Sion and problem solved. [/quote] AP Sion's getting nerfed to shit, GG! :P In all seriousness though, I really dislike AP Sion. They're counterable, but really really annoying. Of course, AD Sion's the flip side of that. Worthless... and then suddenly more unstoppable than a farmed Nasus.[/quote]

[quote=Trojan995]Dual support wouldn't work for a variety of reasons. Even though you pressure mid lane a LOT, the reason you have a jungler is to pressure all three lanes at once. Now that you have all 5 champions accounted for at all times, the enemy can play very aggressive in lane, and win both top and bottom lane because they have no fear of ganks. Moreover, their junglers will help win bottom and top, so those lanes are left to the wolves. Also, their jungler has free reign of your jungle - now suddenly their jungler has constant red, their mid constantly has blue, and their jungler has tons of farm and levels (on top of ganking all the time). AND, if they get a decent mid laner, who can hold the tower against two supports, then you literally gave up an advantage in 3 different spots (top, mid, jungle) for no advantage at all. If your mid lane does succeed? That's still only 1 advantage.[/quote]

[quote=Daanowntje][quote=DuffTime] Just wait until my team takes Vayne and Janna bot, Kat mid (Onoes ware are ur healz?) Amumu Jungle perhaps to lock all teh squishies down~ And a nice big scary Olaf top lane that you can't do anything about because you do zero damage :) If Kat literally can't hold mid like you said we'll just take AP Sion and problem solved. GG. Also the tower would not go down within 5 minutes >:P I'm laughing real good. [/quote] As for the tower going down within 5 minutes. When I wrote my guide the first time I said it would go down within the first 8 minutes as a rough estimation. Untill yesterday, where I actually payed attention to the time, we got it down at 4:34 exactly. Keep laughing though cause it's good for your health ;) As for katarina mid, she's honestly the easiest squishy kill target we could possibly face. If she ever dares to jump one of us in melee range she'll be more than dead unless she flashes, believe me. Mid game she could make things harder due to her healing debuff but i honestly don't think it would matter by then due to her shitty early game. Olaf top lane? That's not even remotely our problem, that will be garen's, or any other solo top that fits our team. Also we're doing a bit more than zero damage, that was the part where I laughed ;) Might be a little hard to understand if you haven't even tried the setup though. Sion mid will indeed be a hard one due to his shield and stun. But our advantage will be him having to go melee range to last hit, which will result in him taking pretty serious damage from 2 supports at a time. As long as we don't get stunned near turret without minions nearby we should probably be fine. If their jungler comes to gank us and I don't have my silence up to counter sion's stun, stuff might get pretty risky though I must admit. As long as we manage to harras sion properly we should once again be fine though, he won't be able to kill us when low hp and when the jungler is exhausted. I think something like Sion + morgana (or 2 other supports :P) on mid would counter us due to stun + snare, passive heal and shield, and them being able to kill minions just as fast. In a ranked game we'd probably ban them. But let's assume we didn't, we would have a slight advantage over them if we don't die (which will be hard). The advantage would be them sharing farms, and 2 AP carries low on farms doesn't work very well. Our side will have soraka taking all the farms, and sona can perform well without due to her support nature.[/quote]

[quote=GrimmFate]Olaf top lane wins no matter what. Especially if you don't have a jungler. Sorry, it's true though :([/quote]

[quote=KyleeRayne]^yup pretty much[/quote]

[quote=Daanowntje][quote=Trojan995] Dual support wouldn't work for a variety of reasons. Even though you pressure mid lane a LOT, the reason you have a jungler is to pressure all three lanes at once. Now that you have all 5 champions accounted for at all times, the enemy can play very aggressive in lane, and win both top and bottom lane because they have no fear of ganks. Moreover, their junglers will help win bottom and top, so those lanes are left to the wolves. Also, their jungler has free reign of your jungle - now suddenly their jungler has constant red, their mid constantly has blue, and their jungler has tons of farm and levels (on top of ganking all the time). AND, if they get a decent mid laner, who can hold the tower against two supports, then you literally gave up an advantage in 3 different spots (top, mid, jungle) for no advantage at all. If your mid lane does succeed? That's still only 1 advantage. [/quote] I like your post, haven't really thought of it that way. You should keep in mind though that your scenario is for people who've really been thinking this setup through. I can tell you that every game I've played, the jungler decided to help mid, and I guess that he will do this up to a certain ELO as well unless he's been thinking about how to counter this setup. Also I wrote my guide for the intention of normal game IP farming, which undoubtedly works like a charm, but it's always fun to theorycraft about ranked, so here we go: Let's assume your scenario, their top and bot lane playing aggressively because they can't get ganked. The first thing you'll have to realise is that our team will be standing next to, or close to the turrets by then, so I doubt their jungler can get a gank off. Secondly, if their jungler helps them pushing bot, it will be a temporary 2v3, whereas our mid will be a constant 2v1, i think mid will go down relatively faster. If their jungler decides to push top, it will be a tempory 2v1 as well, with our advantage being that their solo top is melee, and their jungler will most likely be melee as well. I'm pretty sure a spinning garen can keep 2 melee off for long enough to make the difference. Lastly, if everything goes according to plan, early game shouldn't last long enough for their aggressive play to have a serious impact on us. Unless they have a mid champ that can keep off the supports long enough you say? Yes I suppose, but I haven't faced a mid champ yet that could keep us off for longer than about 8 min due to the arguments i mentioned in my guide ;) As for them having constant buffs, we'll at least be warding our blue, to keep our advantage of their AP carry going OOM and us not! I think what you're forgetting, is that by getting their jungler farmed and not helping mid, they'll deny their AP carry getting farmed, which basically ruins the concept of their jungler. And to GrimmFate, if garen can't keep olaf off we'll switch garen for olaf ^^ Tell me what you think, theory is obviously always different from reality but I still think our setup wins from the normal meta ^^ Especially in normal games![/quote]

[quote=Vort][quote=GrimmFate] Olaf top lane wins no matter what. Especially if you don't have a jungler. Sorry, it's true though :( [/quote] Oddly enough, I've been able to out-lane several Olaf players with Nasus recently. Inherent life steal and cautious Q farming seems to manage fairly well. And more often than not, you can force his ult with wither, making an excellent setup for ganking. But yes, in general, Olaf's a real pain to deal with in a solo lane. Cho does a moderate job dealing with him as well, due to his passive and feast stacks.[/quote]

[quote=GrimmFate][quote=Vort] I've been able to out-lane several Olaf players with Nasus recently [/quote] No. Just no. They were either bad. or didn't have the right rune set-ups/Builds.[/quote]