Madred's Bloodrazor is basically up there for that extra little oomph and it really helps rock health stacked tanks, even more than is already accomplished by this build.

Thanks also for the defending of my Black Cleaver rush and for this little tidbit.

I tell you that in the beginning, and I don't pick up Banshee's Vale for reasons stated in previous replies. As as Frozen Mallet is concerned, it's a really expensive item itself and is rather redundant on Ashe as she already has a slow. Yes it adds to it (by percentage), but it's not enough to just go get it. For the health component, that little bit of health isn't going to save you from being focused.

Crnicelad,

Thanks for the post, and I will go through and defend my work to the best of my ability.



Indeed, he deserves it. He brought up many valid concerns.



The reason I build Black Cleaver first is that I found out, by looking at Roit's page for LoL, that Armor Pen doesn't just reduce armor. If the target has negative armor (like say Black Cleaver can cause), it actually increases the amount of damage that your or your allies do.

I understand that Infinity Edge and The Bloodthirster give more AD, but, at this point, Ashe still has low AS. You get more AS and AD from this, maybe not as much as say from other sources, but it's a good little bump until you finish Infinity Edge and pick up Zeal.

As far as Banshee's Vale is concerned, I never have really found that extra health and mana to be helpful if you get focused. Yes that ignore one magic effect is nice, but any team worth their salt will pop that and then stun you before you can get away. Besides, Madred's Bloodrazor is useful if you have a tank that has built some armor to counter your Armor Pen because they generally don't throw on Magic Resist if you don't have a mage or AP type of person.

The debate between Black Cleaver and Last whisper is interesting. I personally prefer Black Cleaver because it's always going to be 45 armor. If your opponent has 100 armor, you're taking off 45 of that with Black Cleaver. However, if you have Last whisper and they have 100 armor, you're only going to take off 40 armor (40% Armor Pen), and it only goes down with less armor. If your opponent happens to be stacking a **** ton of armor, then yes take a Last Whisper. If not, Black Cleaver is the better choice.



Answered in the previous section first paragraph.



Thank you, and I have come to love them as well.

Again, thanks for the comments and thoughts. I hope this clears up what questions you had about this build, and I look forward to any other thoughts you might have.

Geddie,

Thanks for the comments and concerns. I'll give you a run down as to why I build this way.



As far as this is concerned, yes there are no defensive items. How I play Ashe is to not be at the forefront of the fight. I generally hang back or hide in bushes, since Ashe isn't made for taking hits anyway. And by the time you are starting to take people on 1v1, you're generally ticking off about 1/3 of their health per hit, unless they're a tank.



I know this is probably a bad thing to promote, especially with an Assassin. When I team with an assassin, I generally don't try ks as a rule. I do, however, try to get a couple of hits in for that assist gold. It's not much but it helps keep the gold rolling for this build.



I agree that this is a hard build, I say it's risky in the introduction. I do try to help out my teammates as often as possible, even if it's just me shooting Hawk Shot over mid forest (3v3) to give them a heads up.



You only feed if you don't keep aware of mia's or learn when to run like a ***** (I do this a lot). As far as nothing to offer, I think that's not fair to judge until you've tried it and saved your entire team from being ganked just because you were there (I do this fairly often right about the point I get zeal).

I mean no disrespect in my comments, but I felt I should at lest defend my work. And again, thank you for bringing up obvious weaknesses in my build.

I don't think Madred's is too great of an item for this build, because you don't have that much Attack Speed or defense to keep poking them safely.
Also I don't see what people have against rushing Black Cleaver... The most painful early game Ashes I've fought rushed Black Cleaver. It didn't work out so well mid game, but it's "viable."

Too expensive build aswell, I'd prefer getting BV or at least a Frozen Mallet for more survability.

+1 on Geddie`s comment.

I would also put the question mark to the item build. Starting with Black cleaver is realy a waste on any champion, 1st of all IE or bloodthrister give you far more power and Ashe is build around crits ... so IE + phantom would be reasonable also I see a lack of banshee (I would put it instead of madreds since why would you need magic dmg if you can have 300 AD + penetrate all armor and crit for 800?) ... and instead of Black cleaver I would do Last whisper (if you realy need to penetrate that thornmail) since you get all the needed AS from phantom and AS boots ...

Another thing why I wouldnt start with cleaver is why would you want to (over)penetrate the armor at start ... you have 21 armor penetration with only ARP marks and 10% through the new masteries, that should be more than enough to bring the enemy carrie˙s armor to or close to 0 (unless it`s Graves + Taric).

However the masteries seem right (realy love the new mastery system btw).

All I have written is only my opinion not based on experience with your build, its just my assumption.

Ok sorry but im gonna be honest.
No defensive items. Health 1781. That just wont work.

Considering you are telling people to ks everytime possible you also weaken your team. Any assassin type champ (or just a stun) kills this build in a second.

The thing that this is late game build means you would need some1 to carry your team there. And this item build needs you to farm and kill/ks like crazy which make it hard for your mates.

The item build of course makes you do insane damage, but any champ would with these items.

Nevertheless i wont vote 'cos i havent played with this build.

I'm not saying you couldnt use this for fine results, but overall this build has quite nothing to offer and can make you feed quite easily.

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