Warwick

[quote=Pozsich]It seems like a lot of people say WW is a decent jungler at best, that he's extremely slow and has terrible ganks before level six. So I was wondering who agrees and disagrees, I myself have different views on each: Although I agree his ganks pre-6 are pretty bad, I disagree with him being extremely slow. Since the jungle re-work you can run a [[long sword]] as your first item while staying high to medium health, and for me it isn't very slow. The start I take is wraith-wolves-blue. I use W as my first skill. I'm not saying he's a fast jungler, I just feel people dismiss him a bit more than he deserves. I still think he's a viable and good jungler. And even though his ganks suck pre-6, they are still awesome at 6 which isn't very far into the game. Thoughts?[/quote]

[quote=Lugignaf]You always could start with a long sword. Even before the jungle/mastery re-work. It was just preference for your starting item and path. The reason he's slow, compared to other jungles, is he has no steroids other than an AS boost. In order to make that effective, you [b]have[/b] to start with long sword. If he had an AoE clearing device, he would be a lot, lot stronger. I mean, you can still skill him X/9/X for masteries and take all AD runes but, it's not optimal. The runes that is.[/quote]

[quote=Pozsich]I see what you're saying, but point out that the one buff is all he needs to be decent. Like I said, I'm not arguing for great, I'm arguing for still viable, and not the worthless champion most people seem to think he is. The main argument people who say he's bad is that others are better, and I'm saying that if you feel like playing him it's not a bad choice because he's still valid. Others are better at other things, and Warwick is still a good pick for those who play him the right way. Off the bat I don't see how people can compare completely different junglers so black and white style. For example a person could say [[Shyvana]] > [[amumu]] > [[udyr]] > [[warwick]] if they wanted to, but it seem to me these champions all play different roles. Shyvana is an AOE and single target damage dealer. Amumu is a single and AOE stunner. Udyr is a single target damage dealer, with some AOE and a small stun. Warwick is a single target suppress plus naturally good 1v1er and damage soaker due to his passive. Please note I wrote all these descriptions minding their tool sets only, not taking builds into consideration.[/quote]

[quote=example1013]I'll just say that I rarely actually fear Warwick. I don't play him so I can't comment on the viability of different builds or uses, but I never feel concerned when I see him coming off the river unless I'm already really low and he has his ult up.[/quote]

[quote=Pozsich][quote=example1013] I'll just say that I rarely actually fear Warwick. I don't play him so I can't comment on the viability of different builds or uses, but I never feel concerned when I see him coming off the river unless I'm already really low and he has his ult up. [/quote] You make me sad sir ): But I know what you mean, most warwicks simply are not threatening. Like all champions that are generally dismissed though, there's always that one who'll kill you and make you go "...Did he get buffed?"[/quote]

[quote=Blydden]In the new jungle, you need at least 1 of the following: -Flawless ganks. If your ganks go wrong its very bad...if your ganks go right however, its very good. This is how they get ahead, because they have very strong ganking. [[Nocturne]], [[Rammus]], [[Shaco]] -Flawless farming. If you can't gank, you need to be able to farm very very well in order to get ahead. That means speed & sustainability. Extreme farming speed allows these junglers to get ahead. [[Udyr]], [[Skarner]], [[Tryndamere]] -Flawless transition. If you can't gank or farm, you need be able to [i]still[/i] produce late game. If your jungle goes to absolute hell (and it probably will, considering how the new jungle is so ruthless), you still need to be able to support your team. [[Amumu]], [[Nunu]], [[Blitzcrank]] [[Warwick]] fits none of these 3 categories very well. His ganking is notoriously god-awful pre-6. It gets good post-level 6 but how does he get there? His farming is not very fast, its very sustainable but in the new jungle - Speed > Sustain. His transition is not flawless either, as he needs to have a bare minimum of damage and tankiness in order to have output later in the game. Can [[Warwick]] STILL jungle? Yes. But he's nothing special anymore compared to [[Udyr]], [[Skarner]], or [[Trundle]].[/quote]

[quote=Zeprido]The only thing WW has for him is his strong level 6 gank which, with flash, is near unavoidable and can guarantee a kill with a followup from the lane. Otherwise he's kinda meh atm unless they shift his strengths a bit, he's going to be meh for quite a while.[/quote]

[quote=example1013][quote=Pozsich] [quote=example1013] I'll just say that I rarely actually fear Warwick. I don't play him so I can't comment on the viability of different builds or uses, but I never feel concerned when I see him coming off the river unless I'm already really low and he has his ult up. [/quote] You make me sad sir ): But I know what you mean, most warwicks simply are not threatening. Like all champions that are generally dismissed though, there's always that one who'll kill you and make you go "...Did he get buffed?" [/quote] Unfortunately based on the champs I play, I have near-total control over whether I get ganked or not regardless of if I buy wards, so the only time WW even gets close enough to use abilities on me is if I'm okay with him being that close. Well, unfortunately for WW players anyways. Also, Blydden nicely summarizes why I absolutely loathe the new jungle.[/quote]

[quote=Luther3000]Blydden pretty much summed it up, Warwick's previous unique advantage over other junglers was his massive sustain and how easy he was to jungle with. Now, any jungler can clear at high health. Warwick brings nothing to the role of jungler that other junglers don't do better.[/quote]

[quote=Blydden][quote=example1013] Unfortunately based on the champs I play, I have near-total control over whether I get ganked or not regardless of if I buy wards, so the only time WW even gets close enough to use abilities on me is if I'm okay with him being that close. Well, unfortunately for WW players anyways. Also, Blydden nicely summarizes why I absolutely loathe the new jungle. [/quote] [quote=Luther3000] Blydden pretty much summed it up, Warwick's previous unique advantage over other junglers was his massive sustain and how easy he was to jungle with. Now, any jungler can clear at high health. Warwick brings nothing to the role of jungler that other junglers don't do better. [/quote] WOO I've been acknowledged!!! :DDD[/quote]