Rushing Trinity Force On Talon

[quote=Temzilla][quote=Vapora Dark] [*] [quote=DuffTime] It's not good. And on Talon it makes even less sense. Why build a massive expensive item for a proc, when he has crushing scaling on his skills? :P [/quote] My point exactly. We have some inexperienced Talon players making Talon guides on mobafire. >:( [/quote] You're looking at em ;) Made mah talon guide DAY ONE, haven't played him yet :D! MUWHAHAHA![/quote]

[quote=Embracing][quote=Vapora Dark] My point exactly. We have some inexperienced Talon players making Talon guides on mobafire. >:( For those who are saying how Talon should be built, I know that, I've mained him for ages. :P I was just wondering why some people think it's smart to get an early Tri-Force. I've even been thinking I should just never build it at all. Your base AD once per burst is smaller than Bloodthirster or Infinity Edge damage with your entire burst. [/quote] [b]Trinity Force and Infinity Edge[/b] Assuming 100 Base AD (level 16) Trinity Force - Burst +30 AD +150 Damage +14% Crit 450 Infinity Edge - Burst +80 AD +25% Crit 250% Crit Damage 405 Damage Trinity Force - Steady +30 AD +150 Damage per 3 seconds. +14% Crit 350 Damage Per Second Infinity Edge - Steady +80 AD +25% Crit +250% Crit Damage 405 Damage Per Second So Infinity Edge barely beats out Trinity Force in damage assuming damage and crit are the only stats that matter. Because W and R scale off AD Infinity Edge also wins in that sense. Trinity Force - Bonuses +40% Attack Speed +275 Health +250 Mana +12% Movement Speed +30 AP 25% Chance to Slow (passive + 10% damage on auto attacks) Infinity Edge - Bonuses None So in the end Trinity Force comes out on top in burst damage but loses slightly in steady damage due to W and R's AD Scaling and a matter of 50 damage every second + Around 30 a second for W's AD Scaling and less then 5 damage a second on ult scaling in damage per second.. However, bring into account the attack speed on Trinity Force and suddenly you're tieing Infinity Edge in steady damage again plus several other stats for other situations and if you proc the slow you're winning in damage even. Trinity Force Better Utility Better Burst Equal Steady Infinity Edge Worse Utility Worse Burst Equal Steady [b]Trinity Force and Frozen Mallet [/b] The two most controversial items on Talon. I felt I would explain both in much detail to explain why I buy a Trinity Force and why I don't buy a Frozen Mallet. Trinity Force The Trinity Force is the strongest AD Item in the game for anybody with a low cooldown and who wants to do single target damage. I will admit IE or Bloodthirster would be stronger if your goal was to deal maximum AoE damage but it is not. You are a single target burster who can deal a bit of AoE damage but always keep your focus to that one target and take them out of the fight. Trinity Force gives a lot of stats all over the place too. The only stat that goes to waste is 30 AP. You make use of every other stat. Two of the main things you make use of are the phage passive which slows and the sheen active which deals extra damage. Aside from those it also gives a chunk of movement speed, crit, attack damage, health, mana, and attack speed which are all stats you can use on Talon and even use well in most situations. Frozen Mallet Why not build a Frozen Mallet and capitalize on that passive? Simple. You're not auto attacking enough for it to be a strong item. You'll get more damage out of living long enough with a Warmog to get one more skill off and you'll get more utility out of living longer too. You already have a slow, a closer, a silence, and a movement speed buff it's not terribly important you get another slow. Another problem is it requires you to auto attack to slow meaning you're glued to your target so while they may not escape neither will you and being a burst champion you should be playing in and out in and out over and over every cooldown and not sticking around to get your ass beat on too much. Frozen Mallet will slow you as much as it may slow them. ^ All taken from FMA Umashi's Talon guide.[/quote]

[quote=Temzilla]Assuming that we are building primarily for burst alone, let's look at a single rotation of Talon's abilities. Infinity Edge:E>Q>R>W Q: 659+1054(If crit) W: 425 R: 810 Total: 1894 or 2948 damage. (Average of 2200) Trinity Force:E>Q>R>W Q: 618+493(If crit) E: 309 R: 614 Total: 1541 or 2034 damage. (Average of 1634) The average of Trinity is under the minimum of I.E. I.E. is cheaper. It's not really a contest. I.E. even does much more right click DPS. The more AD you have, the better I.E. gets.[/quote]

[quote=Embracing]Did you put in the Sheen proc?[/quote]

[quote=Temzilla][quote=RosePhoenix] Did you put in the Sheen proc? [/quote] Yup. Without sheen proc, Q damage goes down by 159.[/quote]

[quote=Embracing]I'm not so sure, haven't personally done the math myself. Not sure how you'll put in the utility in the math though. :s[/quote]

[quote=Temzilla][quote=RosePhoenix] I'm not so sure, haven't personally done the math myself. Not sure how you'll put in the utility in the math though. :s [/quote] I don't feel that the move speed and health/mana are worth the price personally. I would much rather build Frozen Mallet if I wanted CC for his passive, and Trinity is REALLY expensive, and doesn't give nearly as much damage as an I.E. On Talon, Damage is your first priority.[/quote]

[quote=Wintermond][quote=DuffTime] Do not ever rush Trinity Force on any champion. [/quote] HI MY NAME IS POPPY[/quote]

[quote=Embracing]Doesn't Corki rush it too?[/quote]

[quote=Temzilla][quote=RosePhoenix] Doesn't Corki rush it too? [/quote] Yeah, but it's shit on corki as a first item.[/quote]