[DISCUSS] What do you think about Karma, THE...

[quote=albableat]But I love AP Karma personally :)[/quote]

[quote=Mooninites][quote=albableat] [quote=ProAsylum] 1. she can go to ANY lane ( top, mid , bot ). 2. she can has a lot of sustain due to [[Heavenly Wave]] AND [[Soul Shield]] 3. she got a lot of damage with a pretty good scaling 4. she got a nice movement buff/debuff using [[Spirit Bond]] 5. because of her passive [[inner Flame]] she doesn't need AP early game and can rush chalice of harmony + getting [[frozen heart]] in mid game. 6. she can bait a lot of enemies with low hp because of her [[inner Flame]] , [[Heavenly Wave]] and [[Soul Shield]] there are just way more PROS than CONS to play [[Karma]]. but she is totally underplayed in my eyes, don't you think so, too? [/quote] 1) Not really. She is a terrible support, definitely, since she requires scaling to be really useful. Top Karma isn't really good either, but that's imo. 2) True, but many champs have some sort of sustain. 3) Yes. And that's the problem 4) Since when is 10% called big buff/debuff? Don't forget, you're only putting 1 point into W early. Kinda unfair comparing to Lulu's 80% Q_Q 5) True. And that's why mid [[karma]] is pretty damn lovely and why I await the new retarded item that will make Chalice 1000000000% more viable. 6) Meh. You get used to the fact that Karma shields herself for another health bar after bumping your face at it for several first times. But yea, pretty cool fact. Yes, Karma should be played more. But to make her really viable Riot either needs to tweak the numbers and ratios (to make her viable as support) or reduce the mantra recharge timer/allow for more charge (to make her viable as an AP Carry). [/quote] I'm pretty sure you haven't ever played [[Karma]] support and I would bet you haven't played a whole lot of [[Karma]] in general. She's not a bad support and she "requires scaling"? I assume you mean items, and you'd be wrong because she really only needs CDR to be effective as support. A lot of people have this misconception that she needs all these items to be viable and it's not true at all her. Her base heal and shielding together combine for more damage mitigation than any other single support. I don't know what you mean by "making chalice more viable", chalice is a very viable item right now, the only problem is it doesn't build into anything. I hate when people say it isn't viable because by itself it's one of the best items per gold in the game Also reducing the mantra charge would make her a more viable support. The problem she has as a support is early on inconsistency with her heal, high mana costs/low mana regen, and a poor auto attack range. Her numbers really aren't that bad other than mana issues.[/quote]

[quote=Arkharan]Since I don't like karma I'm gonna say. Fuck you guys I'm going home. xD[/quote]

[quote=JMastiff]I wouldn't play her support because she comes with plain sustain spells, nothing really much there to boost carry's job. Look at how popular Nunu became just because he makes the carry that much faster, enemies slower and his ult will deal substantial damage without items, tho he doesnt bring much sustain for it. Jannas shield will still boost carrys ad, Taric has armor and hard cc, Soraka has infinite sustain and armor boost along with heal and global ult. There is no reason to pick her cause for every tactic you'd choose for line there is a better support. You'd have to come up with something really different, like letting her do the carry job and get some other support. That could work.[/quote]

[quote=Lugignaf][quote=JMastiff] I wouldn't play her support because she comes with plain sustain spells, nothing really much there to boost carry's job. Look at how popular Nunu became just because he makes the carry that much faster, enemies slower and his ult will deal substantial damage without items, tho he doesnt bring much sustain for it. Jannas shield will still boost carrys ad, Taric has armor and hard cc, Soraka has infinite sustain and armor boost along with heal and global ult. There is no reason to pick her cause for every tactic you'd choose for line there is a better support. You'd have to come up with something really different, like letting her do the carry job and get some other support. That could work. [/quote] She works well with champions that have a way to get behind the enemy fast and efficiently. Graves, Ezreal and Twitch are decent laning partners for her because they let her capitalize on the slow and high base damage of her W. When/If you down the tower early, you can roam+escape a bit easier because of the slow and speed boost. Sure Nunu does this too but, a niche is a niche.[/quote]

[quote=JMastiff]That's why I thought about letting her go carry with tankier support. I think that was previously Duffs idea but he said it could be Ashe so it wouldn't fit the comp.[/quote]

[quote=Lugignaf]Surprisingly, Ashe+Karma works really well. Slows forever and you have the poke to really piss people off.[/quote]

[quote=lifebaka][quote=Mooninites] Her base heal and shielding together combine for more damage mitigation than any other single support. [/quote] Assuming you can get Karma's heal off on your entire team... [[Soraka]] still begs to differ on this one. Soraka's heal has a much bigger base than Karma's shield, and Wish is way better than Karma's heal is every likely to be.[/quote]

[quote=Keondre][[Karma]] is a pretty decent champion. She is viable in a lot of team compositions and can fill 2 roles at the same time.[/quote]