[DISCUSS] What do you think about Karma, THE...

[quote=Lugignaf]I can play AP Janna mid and achieve the exact same numbers on the shield as if I was playing AP Karma mid. It's also a lot more useful in trading because it gives an AD boost against AP mids who typically don't have a ton of armor. Yes, I play Karma. No, I'm not underestimating her. The point that I'm trying to make is, it is terrible in terms of utility. If you're using it for damage, it's amazing compared to other shields. If you're using it as a support, it's sub-par because there are so many other, and better, shields out there.[/quote]

[quote=Mooninites][quote=ProAsylum] [quote=Lugignaf] [quote=ProAsylum] Hey guys, recently I came up to train all champs that I didn't master yet and then after years of playing LoL I finally bought [[Karma]]! I think she's way too underplayed because..[[[And you go on with wrong reasons]]] [/quote] Reason she's underplayed: She has basically 2 damage skills as an AP mid. If she's support, she is [b]severely[/b] restricted by cooldowns if she wants to sustain her partner. ~30 seconds on a heal is not a good thing if it's better the later on you use it. Her shield, while having nice AoE, provides no incentive to level it up other than raw blocking power. Compared to other "good" shields, it falls flat. [[Eye of the storm]] gives AD. [[Help, Pix!]] gives them something to CS with easier. Her [[Spirit bond]], while highly damaging, is [b]very hard[/b] to actually hit with. You're using a skillshot, that basically can curve. It takes a lot of teamwork to pull off or, good early positioning so you can bond a minion and deal the damage there. And, like Mooninites said, [quote=Mooninites] you don't understand why she's strong and why she's weak, move along [/quote] [/quote] you underestimate her. compared to other shield? in midgame she shield for something around 500 + damage, too. if you were in EU-W I could show you a real good [[karma]] but unfortunatly I can't. maybe I'll give you a replay.. [/quote] Lugi and I probably play the most [[Karma]] out of everyone on Mobafire, the only exception would probably be Egypsian Lover who made the top karma guide, but I haven't seen her online in months. We don't underestimate her, but when you say things like "she's really strong pre-6" we know you don't understand her. Most of her issues are pre-6. She has poor mana regen and high mana costs that scale upwards pretty quickly, her heal is unreliable without CDR, she has a poor auto-attack range and animation, etc. She has many problems that make her quite bad pre-6 which is when most supports need to be at their strongest. Perhaps I think differently because I play her strictly as a support and I do find her quite strong, at least stronger than most people give her credit for, but you seem to think she's the strongest support out there, and I would disagree.[/quote]

[quote=tehAsian]Actually Moon, in my experience as playing [[karma]] in a solo lane with some AP, she's strong pre-6. Maybe your opinion is different because you play her support :P[/quote]

[quote=Lugignaf]She is strong pre-6. She's probably stronger than most AP mids. Unfortunately, her power level drops like a stone at 6 because she's getting no ult. If she actually got some more power at 6 other than another level in a skill, she might be a lot better.[/quote]

[quote=Mooninites][quote=tehAsian] Actually Moon, in my experience as playing [[karma]] in a solo lane with some AP, she's strong pre-6. Maybe your opinion is different because you play her support :P [/quote] she's strong at trading pre-6 but as a support this is her weakest point. I actually don't think she's a strong AP mid, she's quite weak except for her ability to exchange well. I feel like traditional AP carries do much more than she does outside of lane, she seemingly has no map control compared to other AP's[/quote]

[quote=ProAsylum][quote=Mooninites] [quote=tehAsian] Actually Moon, in my experience as playing [[karma]] in a solo lane with some AP, she's strong pre-6. Maybe your opinion is different because you play her support :P [/quote] she's strong at trading pre-6 but as a support this is her weakest point. I actually don't think she's a strong AP mid, she's quite weak except for her ability to exchange well. I feel like traditional AP carries do much more than she does outside of lane, she seemingly has no map control compared to other AP's [/quote] I do think that karma is like Lux. no real support but more ap-stacking midlane[/quote]

[quote=Mooninites][quote=ProAsylum] [quote=Mooninites] [quote=tehAsian] Actually Moon, in my experience as playing [[karma]] in a solo lane with some AP, she's strong pre-6. Maybe your opinion is different because you play her support :P [/quote] she's strong at trading pre-6 but as a support this is her weakest point. I actually don't think she's a strong AP mid, she's quite weak except for her ability to exchange well. I feel like traditional AP carries do much more than she does outside of lane, she seemingly has no map control compared to other AP's [/quote] I do think that karma is like Lux. no real support but more ap-stacking midlane [/quote] that would be incorrect. The reason [[Lux]] is such a bad support is because she relies on landing skillshots, if you miss 1 you are a free kill. [[Karma]] isn't necessarily the same. [[Rabadon's Deathcap]] is very stron on her due to her passive. I'd also say [[Lux]] is a much better AP carry than [[Karma]]. I would say [[Karma]] is a better support than [[Lux]] and [[Lux]] is a better AP carry than [[Karma]].[/quote]

[quote=Lugignaf][quote=Mooninites] [quote=ProAsylum] [quote=Mooninites] [quote=tehAsian] Actually Moon, in my experience as playing [[karma]] in a solo lane with some AP, she's strong pre-6. Maybe your opinion is different because you play her support :P [/quote] she's strong at trading pre-6 but as a support this is her weakest point. I actually don't think she's a strong AP mid, she's quite weak except for her ability to exchange well. I feel like traditional AP carries do much more than she does outside of lane, she seemingly has no map control compared to other AP's [/quote] I do think that karma is like Lux. no real support but more ap-stacking midlane [/quote] I would say [[Karma]] is a better support than [[Lux]] and [[Lux]] is a better AP carry than [[Karma]]. [/quote] Unless you miss those skillshots. Karma's a lot more point+click.[/quote]

[quote=JEFFY40HANDS]She's an oddball counter pick to some tops/mids. But overall her mana costs are too high and her utility is only beneficial with large amounts of AP. Unlike Alistar/Sona/Soraka/Janna who, without large amounts of AP/mana can do their jobs effectively.[/quote]

[quote=ProAsylum]... smartcast is the key for karma :O just harrass the enemy to low hp... then use [[mantra]] .. flash then [[soul shield]] and Q + ignite. GG[/quote]